Political & Elections

Finally, Goldenpouch, revealed his previous HI plan, after 889 pages of posts.  What a jerk.  And if anyone wants to tell him that, tell him it's from me.

I want to talk about MONEY and investing.

I think it got closed because it was getting harder to defend. 

Isn't odd that we have mandated Auto Insurance that has PIP (personal injury protection). liability, and Uninsured Motorist protection, in case we cause an injury in case either we or them are without HI.

Possibly, you've put your apple pie thumb on exactly the problem, lp. That sentence implies that getting sick, without means to pay for it, is eye to eye with buying a car and killing someone with it.

Existing and responsibility are two entirely different things.

longprime wrote:

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IMO, Employer paid HI (especially the cadillac plans) is worse than "free" ER  and hospitalization to the less wealthy.

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 That makes no sense.  I will take getting a cadillac plan any day over not having insurance and going to the ER.

I particularly like Calmom's analysis. Boiled down to just gravy. 

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16534147-post3307.html

I've noticed that on cc, the phrase "the middle class" is generally used to refer to the "upper class". (We see this in the financial aid threads as well). Basically, the income distribution in this country will leave the lower economic third eligible for Medicaid (at least in the Medicaid expansion states); the middle third subsidy eligible; and the top third will not be eligible for subsidies. I realize that could be a significant hardship for the people who are on the lower end of the upper third -- there is a fairly steep drop off, especially for older people who are subject to higher insurance rates. However, that hardship is nothing compared to the people in the lower third in the non-Medicaid expansion states, who have simply been left out in the cold by their state governments. (As a practical matter they can qualify for subsidies by simply lying about their anticipated 2014 income, but no one is going to tell them that, so I am thinking that only a small percentage will be savvy enough to figure that out.)

Most people in the upper third are already enjoying subsidies for insurance. They are not taxed on their employers' contributions to their health care. They are more likely to be homeowners who can itemize deductions than the lower two-thirds, and as noted they can deduct all medical expenses over 10% of their AGI, including excess health insurance premiums. They also are more likely to have enough discretionary income to fund and HSA, which essentially lets them deduct their pretty much their full insurance deductible whether they use it or not. So they GET subsidies,, they just get their subsidies in a different way.

DS left a job this year with a large consulting firm to the health industry. His contribution was $10/biweek and $5 copay. I can't remember his Out-of-pocket costs. Covered, medical, prescription, vision, and dental. On the corporate side, the company got to expense out the insurance. On the employee side, he got really good HI at very low cost. 

IMO, Employer paid HI (especially the cadillac plans) is worse than "free" ER  and hospitalization to the less wealthy.

Win, your posts are too long. 

Too bad about Mr Goldhill's father. Happened 2+ years ago. NOT under ObamaCare and I am not sure if ObamaCare addresses this issue. I can't remember if ACA addresses hospitalization outcomes. 

As for that can of peas-It is an inferior product. I haven't eaten a can of peas in decades. My first profession was food processing. Today that can has a good chance of: steel  made in China, formed in China, shipped on China ships, received at a China own terminal. And the liner of full of BPA. The peas may have been grown in the USA but there is also a good possibility for the peas being grown in Tasmania and canned in Tasmania, and then the peas being too mature for the higher margined frozen product. 

Row crops is a marginal product for the grower. 30years ago, growers used row crops as part of crop rotation to grain which paid more and could be hedged in the financial markets. Row crop growers got paid over 1-2 years sharing the production risk with the processor. 

The free market is great. The free market has dictated that canned peas does not make money for anybody in the supply line. I truly doubt that you can today find a can of peas at your grocer. 

HI is not a free market product. HI is forced to retain adversed clients and there is a lack of price competition because the client pool is the same for company-ie people looking for insurance. Once you have HI there is no real incentive to change that insurance.  I doubt that you have shopped for personal insurance and if you had, you would see that the rates are within dollars of each other for exactly the same coverage and deductible. And if you had shopped, you filled out a 10 page health questionaire of which any question could disqualify you. I personally like the question 1 & 2. -Have you ever applied for HI and Have you ever been denied HI? Doesn't really matter if you answer because the application allows the HI company to check the Medical Insurance Information Exchange (forgot the exact name).

Pillsbury pie crust. 

Apple pie filling. 

Bake. 

i have never been successful baking pies from scratch. Cakes, yes. 

Hohoho ho. Like all of Calmom's and dstark's andmany others' posts are not supporting ACA? Hilarious.

Whoa. That is some recipe. too complex for me, kind of like your investing advice. 

My mom did sliced apples, sugar, cinnamon. 2 tbsp flour, and lard crust.

i do sliced apples, sugar, cinnamon, nutmeg, 2 tbsp flour, and butter crust.  She used macs, but I think macs get too mushy. I like the apples to have some bite.

oh well, apple pies are not my best, my strawberry-rhubarb and my blueberry ones are much better. Or maybe I just like them more. 

Too many points to consider, Win. 

I don't fundamentally disagree with you, However in my own circumstance, where I had insurance but was forced to the open market, I was denied HI. Only thru Medicaid was I able to enroll for HI, but at a relatively high dollar. I kinda like to be in the general HI population rather than the assigned risk pool. 

Gotta run, making apple pies: up to 22. Today it will be 26.

SOMETHING MARKET BASED MAYBE

Let's see now. What do you have, had, want to have.  

Prior to ObamaCare:

I had 1 choice= employer group health. (3 companies, 2 deductibles each)

After RIF, I had 3 choices=1) No insurance, 2) chose my own insurance 3)COBRA. Had I known what I know now, I would have gotten my own personal insurance and skipped COBRA. 

After COBRA, I had 0 choice=pre-existing condition

But the insurance companies (all of them, 4 companies available) referred to me to public assistance (Oregon Medical Insurance Pool (OMID)).=2 choices, 1)don't take plan or 2) take the Plan with no choice in deductibles.

Following year, 10% increase in premium.

Third year on OMID, 2.5 options, 1) No insurance, 2) $2500 deductible or $500 deductible, and the $2500 deductible was 10% higher than previous year that had $500 deductible.

Which now brings us to 2014= 1) No insurance, 2)-68) 67 plans over 6 companies. Total of 68 choices, NONE of which are taxpayer or government subsidized. I also know that at least 1 of the companies, include my doctor. 

For verification purposes, age 63, M, nontribal Indian, individual. Marion co.  www.coveroregon.com

Pray tell me what do you have currently and your choices in 2014.

The Stupid Party is in a corner. What ever alternative(s) that good Rinos or TPs have, those issues cannot be brought to the floor because  the Stupid Party-TP has radicalized the issues. 

so, Razor, you made me look. 

So many anecdotes without basis of figures and facts. Everyone rants and raves about the bad or good parts of someone else's plan but without stating any substantial figures. Goldenpooch (Geeps) is upset about loosing a not so good HI to be forced to go another not so good plan. 

10/30/2013 on CNBC, Santelli, introduced a young lady, contract graphic designer, who said that she is barely making it now, and upset about having to either buy ACA insurance or be penalize. She said that she cannot afford either. She said that if she purchased the cheapest plan, the deductible is so high that she would never get the benefit of the insurance. She said that she is healthy and that she doesn't need HI. 

So, I hear this a lot. A rhetoric of the Stupid Party's mantra.  Is the Stupid Party so dense to ask 2 questions: 1) What lead us to ACA and 2) What is Insurance? and how does this involve young people?  So if we answer these 2 questions, we can see that ACA is really a good Republican idea, and the alternative is just pure, unadulterated, economy sucking, individual initiative  killing, SOCIALISM. Which is exactly why good, LDS,  Gov Mitt Romney, initiated Mass. HI plan. 

So, if the Stupid Party, succeeds in defunding ObamaCare; Do we go back to the socialist, welfared (redundant term)  Medicaid that was breaking  the entire HI system? 

Just do it and tell the mods that they are a bunch of sh--heads. I did. I always speak the truth. 

Agreed. Blankmind. 

The current controversy on "keeping your insurance" and "keep your doctor" is a bit naive on the part of the insurance buying public. We keep both ONLY IF, the insurer/employer desires to offer the same plan and the doctor subscribes to that insurance company's payment.  

I liked my old HI insurance company, Until the employer decided to push more of the expenses on to the employee.

I liked my old Auto insurance company, Until the insurance company decided to drop me. 

I like my home owner's insurance until the insurance company didn't like I was in flood zone, hurricane prone area, tsunami zone, earthquakes, tornados, and forest-wild fires. 

And on UrbanBaby, I loved my ex, until he divorced me for a younger woman. 

PBO may be naive to think that ACA will work, but USA could not sustain the old Mediaid and ER care system when the primary users had no incentive to seek and buy HI. On the reverse side, How long can businesses, employers sustain HI benefits on their group plans? If anything, ACA is a Republican initiated program because it pushes responsibility for HI unto the individual and away from employers.  But the Stupid Party has taken a position against ACA (cannot understand how Romney was opposed to his own plan) primarily because it wasn't their plan. And because this opposition, small businesses and big employers are going to withhold contributions to the Conservative Party absent an viable alternative and old system was failing and was failing fast. 

Just tuned in to Kudlow Report (CNBC) who is continuing to bash ACA-Obamacare. Hospice social worker just left. Nice young lady, May be for DS?

 Kudlow was talking about ObamaCare will/may cause you to lose your doctor. Jeez, Mom has been thru 3 doctors this year, and she is on Kaiser P. She is going to get another doctor on Hospice. 

I don't mind criticism but when something as big as ACA, please give everyone the ability to make up their own minds using balanced arguments. Giving people one sided information is UnAmerican. We have seen the results of unbalanced information and influence to be detrimental to America. 

That's interesting, Samurai. Yeah, the timing was poor since it coincided with my S developing a blood clot two weeks prior, hospitalization, and diagnosis with APS. He went in and took the ACT like a trooper. Our initial college search relied on those results (which were ok, not great) and misled us for awhile, til he did great on the SAT. Just a waste of time for the poor kid at that point! 

I was just reminded of all that the more Calmom goes on and on..and on. :)

Just looked this up. Wow, sure you are right!

http://www.webmd.com/health-insurance/20130815/obamacare-state-navigator-organizations-announced

Hard as it is getting men to commit, and women being as practical as they are, the state of marriage didn't really need another reason not to visit it.