Political & Elections

Putin wins because USA spent its future wealth and past goodwill on 2 Wars. However, I would guess that in the long run, PBO will win this issue with the common folk in the mid-East who would be the target or be within the radius of a chemical attack. 

Getting rid of BG/Sarin is going to be costly affair. The Umatilla Chemical  Munitions Depot, took more 7 years, $2.7 Billion. Actual time probably 20 years in planning and facility building. Just 11% of US chemical stockpile. Very interesting  sight when  you drive by on  I-84. http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2011/10/last_of_umatilla_depots_chemic.html

It is a lucky break when another world leader you do not like that  much saves your bacon. 

Putin wins big.  

 

 

Don't care if Putin proposal is a sham. Its a proposal that everyone gets to save face without too much embarrassment. 

I don't like chemical weapontry. A bullet has a real good chance of missing its target, especially the way the nontrained people shoot. Organophosphates (Sarin) can be nasty stuff.  Diazinon,(a tamed organophosphate) once commonly used garden and agricultural insecticide is pretty potent. I used a single bag, (4 pounds, wettable powder, 40%) to spray 10 acres of trees. Even at one bag/10 acres, this was Half of allowable and recommended application.  I seem to remember a re-entry period of 7 days, 14 days prior to harvest, and effective kill of 21 days. Disclaimer it has been 30 years since I used it commercially but still have a bag for home use. 

Obama didn't need anyone's approval-- not Congress' or the UN's or England's or Putin's to strike.

Because he lacks the backbone, he does the only thing he is good at -- lecture everybody else about their failings.

Now I know how Michelle felt when for the first time she was proud of her country; for the first time I am ashamed of my country.

Our president has disgraced our country.

 

PBO will come out ahead in this matter?

You are joking, sir?

Putin  is playing the U.S. Our emperor has no clothes.

Did you read Vlad's op Ed in the NYTimes today?

 

Putin's approach is a sham.

Suddenly O and Vlad have been major buds over the last 8 months Plotting this course of action behind the scenes? Give me a break.

What is going on at the White House is abject incompetence and panic. The world knows it.

I have new found respect for Fareed Zakaria, who surprisingly has been one of the few willing to tell it like it is on this issue.

 

Oh, and cut out the state propaganda administered by CNN over the weekend of video of kids being killed. Shameful.

 

oops...take that back, looks like Zakaria has caved since I last heard him..propping up once again our emperor.

 

 

-- Edited by hope on Wednesday 11th of September 2013 08:15:11 PM

-- Edited by hope on Wednesday 11th of September 2013 08:35:59 PM

We have sent a large amount of humanitarian aid to Syria recently - about a billion dollars In 2012 and 2013 for just the US alone. 

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2013/09/213927.htmP

if we begin a strike on Syria, limited or teeny tiny to paraphrase our Secretary of State, expect those numbers to go up significantly. 

"bang for your buck" seems like a callous term, but what happens if we drop bombs on military targets? when does Syria say, no and retaliate in a big way with either our allies on their area or through other means - dirty bombs on our soil, or ill-gotten missiles or alliances with people who used to be our friends or at least ones that weren't trying to actively kill us. 

A limited missile strike isn't a day or two and it's all over.  It isn't all over for the other country, grnerally speaking. Folks have long memories. Except, maybe Japan, which always seems to surprise me.  

If we had dropped two major atomic bombs on China or Russia, I believe we would have looked at a whole different world outcome. 

Don't forget, we posted a hastily made "Mission Accomplished" banner in Iraq.  Were we done. Not even close. Desert Storm led to something else a decade later.  

I do not believe that PBO gets kudos on his embarassing statement a few weeks ago that we are going to strike with or without Congrss' approval.  He doesn't look like a genius, when he backpedaled and then said after Cameron in UK got an embarassing whooping by Parliament, hey, maybe I should ask for Congress' approval after all. 

He doesn't look like a genius or a Nobel Peace Prize winner when he backpedals and said "i didn't set the red line, the world did". 

He looks like every other President with data to use to get actively involved in a war that looks better on paper than reality. Of course, while he would rather send anonymous drones to do the heavy lifting, sending boots on the ground would eventually enter the equation.  Our own losses or casualty losses for civilians will eventually turn this little crisis into a full blown decade long disaster, a war we are ill prepared to fight or pay for. 

In 2010 and 2011, when forces in our military were cut to devastating low levels, the reality of are we prepared to fight another manor war come into question. In 2011 when my son was cut from his ROTC program a few weeks before graduation and commissioning, it became a personal family situation of wondering how we or he would now pay for this ridiculously huge cost that son would now have to pay back. This was a STEM trained student training to be an officer.  Eventually, he will put this all past him and pay this huge burden he was not counting on and for which the traditional rules of student financial aid do not apply. During these significant cuts in our nation's defense, they eliminated a large amount of younger enlisted and officers in a way to cut forces, not just for his branch, but others' too. This was not confined to ROTC, but service academies also commissioned less.  

When son's officer friend's deployment was cancelled in early 2013 due to not having enough money to pay for the fuel for their mission, you might think it is a joke.  But it is not. He has a couplevof friends who enlisted - a set of brothers - one Navy, one Marines.  The Marine was stop lossed, which meant even when his time was up, he got another tour of duty.  One brother is finally out and hoping his brother joins him soon. If you looked at either kid, you would have figured they would be lifers, but the threat is too big - especially for the Marine.  Young, eager and well, a little too patriotic...but with the cuts in forces, now even more at risk than before. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

exactly, blankmind. It's the world community, the United States, the Congress. Isn't that pretty much everyone? Except for him.

So I guess he's not considering himself to be a part of these communities. I wonder what he is a part of. The alien community??

Sorry guys, PBO, is following the President before him when there was a RedLine placed on biological and chemical weapons. Remember that Line was based on dubious source, breaking of US law in divulging SecretAgent Girl, and delivery of dropdead time if delivery of nonexistant product wasn't done by midnite. Congress authorized War.  

PBO is just CHR. He may take shortterm hits but if Assad used chemical weapontry on other nations and peoples, PBO will have his ass covered and Congress would look foolish. If Assad never used or will used such weapontry, PBO will say that he, the President, was prepared and didn't give the Go, like Bush43. 

-- Edited by longprime on Monday 9th of September 2013 08:59:51 PM

-- Edited by longprime on Monday 9th of September 2013 09:03:16 PM

I didn’t set a red line,” Mr. Obama said during a news conference here in Stockholm. “The world set a red line.”

He added, “My credibility’s not on the line. The international community’s credibility’s on the line. And America and Congress’s credibility’s on the line.”

 

 

 

 

Those rebels are not our friends, either. 

Like , the long slow spiral down the drain. 

 

Kerry; Not odd at all. The SoS is the spokesperson of the POTUS.

 

The real issue is the Chemical Stockpiles, in this case Real  and not imaginary. The Doomsday scenario in the Mideast is not Iran or Iraq or even Afghanistan but Syria (Assad or Rebels) dropping a barrage of chemical rockets unto Israel. Why do you think PBO was ambivalent towards Egypt's coup-d'eta -he believes a controlled Military is better than a uncontrolled Muslim Brotherhood. 

 

Boehner and Cantor are now on board with Obama and McCain. We are doomed. Assad is busy putting his weapons in civilian areas so we will kill plenty of civilians.

It's odd to see someone who claimed to be a war protester appearing before congress demanding war. Kerry should be ashamed of himself.

Obama makes Jimmy Carter look like a strong, decisive leader.

I can't believe how much he has screwed this up. That's what happens when you elect someone president who has never led or managed anything in his life.

I don't care if you think we should bomb or shouldn't bomb, should side with the rebels or not side with the rebels, do need a vote of congress or don't need a vote of congress. There never have been any good choices with Syria, but what's worse than making the bad choice rather than the less bad choice is the dithering fits and starts that humiliates us and makes us look weak in the very part of the world where the only thing that counts is not looking weak. One day he shoots off his mouth and we have a red line; then when the red line is crossed, we didn't really have a red line; then when he's criticized, well, we have a red line again, but don't worry, its only going to be a shot across the bough that doesn't really mean anything; then he could do it without even consulting congress; then he won't do it without a vote of congress. And maybe there will be a vote someday when everyone gets back from vacation.

Syria, Iran, Egypt, North Korea... THEY ARE ALL LAUGHING AT US! I much preferred it with W when they hated us, but at least feared us.

So it is US and France on this one, and President Obama needs the will of Congress.  Pelosi is being a hawk, which surprises the heck out of me. 

Who is the ally, here? The rebels or tge soldiers? Who is the ememy? I am sure I am not the only person in the room who saw the news of the beheading of a Christian bishop by the rebels, or the Syrian soldier whose body was cut open so that one if the rebels could cut out and feast on  his heart. If you are feeling adventurous, google it. 

This is a no win For the US, and a no win for PBO aka Nobel Peace Prize Winner. 

 

 

It is just so obvious what will happen if they send in a bunch of airstrikes on Syria. Plenty of civilians will get killed as collateral damage, and before you know it, we will be the aggressor and the enemy, continuing to unify people in the Middle East against the US. People will forget that Assad is the problem, and the great Satan will take his place as the bad guy. Forget it, military action is no win. Perhaps we could consider threatening his supporters (China and Russia) with something that matters to them, and we'd get further.

If anyone thought the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were illegitimate  for US to get involved in, well, Syria is even less legitimate. 

We can't get involved in Syria at this point. Bad move.  

don't forget then Senator Obama's opinion about Iraq in 2007. 

 

don't know who is JEM. 

So, Razor, Your tCC Syria post, did you get a timeout or a banning ?