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Post Info TOPIC: Occupy Wall Street versus Tea Party


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Occupy Wall Street versus Tea Party
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When Debbie Wasserman Schultz can't spare time for a Democratic demogaphic, it's because it's become nothing but a liability.

Pressed on whether she would talk to the protesters if she got the chance, the Florida congresswoman responded, I probably won’t have a chance to talk to them while I’m here but I have talked to Occupy Wall Street folks over the last few months, I’ve been publicly supportive of them. I think that they are well within their rights to be frustrated.

Probably better she pushes the embarrassment off a cliff but...



-- Edited by catahoula on Tuesday 3rd of January 2012 08:52:53 PM

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THESE PEOPLE ARE MORONS

Whether or not they're "morons" can be debated, but what we do know is that social science has recently given us a much deeper understanding of the psychlogical mechanisms behind their thinking.

Natural selection has instilled in each of us six psychological foundations which help us to form cooperative societies and to perceive and to counteract threats to our safety, survival, and well being.

The liberal mind is wired, through a combination of nature and nurture, to employ only about half of those foundations, and within that framework to heavily favor one of them above the others. The conservative mind employs all of them in equal balance.

As a result of this wiring the liberal mind is focused almost entirely on protecting and caring for the individual above all else, whereas the conservative mind recognizes and accounts for the tradeoffs between the needs of the individual with the needs of society. (I know I am stating this in black and white terms, and that very little is either all black or all white, but, as it turns out, the terms liberal and conservative actually do serve very well as labels for two very distinctive, even dichotomous, patterns of cognition.)

The scientific research showing these facts is documented in a new book coming out in the spring called The Righteous Mind - Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion


The liberal fixation on caring for the individual essentially ignores the balance that is at the core of conservatism. The liberal mind wants to care for the individual and protect him or her from harm virtually without regard for the cost. This is described in a recently published book called Pathological Altruism

These two books, taken together, explain the pathology behind collectivism/liberalism/progressivism, and historical events like OWS and the French Revolution. They’re all of a piece.

Here’s the summary of the latter book from the Amazon web site:

“The benefits of altruism and empathy are obvious. These qualities are so highly regarded and embedded in both secular and religious societies that it seems almost heretical to suggest they can cause harm. Like most good things, however, altruism can be distorted or taken to an unhealthy extreme. Pathological Altruism presents a number of new, thought-provoking theses that explore a range of hurtful effects of altruism and empathy.

Pathologies of empathy, for example, may trigger depression as well as the burnout seen in healthcare professionals. The selflessness of patients with eating abnormalities forms an important aspect of those disorders. Hyperempathy - an excess of concern for what others think and how they feel - helps explain popular but poorly defined concepts such as codependency. In fact, pathological altruism, in the form of an unhealthy focus on others to the detriment of one's own needs, may underpin some personality disorders.

Pathologies of altruism and empathy not only underlie health issues, but also a disparate slew of humankind's most troubled features, including genocide, suicide bombing, self-righteous political partisanship, and ineffective philanthropic and social programs that ultimately worsen the situations they are meant to aid. Pathological Altruism is a groundbreaking new book - the first to explore the negative aspects of altruism and empathy, seemingly uniformly positive traits. The contributing authors provide a scientific, social, and cultural foundation for the subject of pathological altruism, creating a new field of inquiry. Each author's approach points to one disturbing truth: what we value so much, the altruistic "good" side of human nature, can also have a dark side that we ignore at our peril.”



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THESE PEOPLE ARE MORONS:

"The demonstrations are part of a nationwide day of protest called in the aftermath of efforts by cities across the country, including New York, Boston and Oakland, to clear demonstrators from encampments they had set up in public parks and other locations.

"We are occupying the ports as part of a day of action, boycott and march for full legalization and good jobs for all to draw attention to and protest the criminal system of concentrated wealth that depends on local and global exploitation of working people, and the denial of workers' rights to organize for decent pay, working conditions and benefits, in disregard for the environment and the health and safety of surrounding communities," organizers said on their website.

The port protesters are focusing on terminals owned by SSA Marine, saying it is owed by the Goldman Sachs investment firm, which they argue exemplifies corporate greed and is anti-union.

SSA Senior Vice President Bob Watters disputed the protesters' claims, saying Goldman Sachs owns less than 3 percent of an investment fund that has a minority stake in the company. He also said the company is the largest employer of International Longshore and Warehouse Union members on the West Coast.

That union, which represents 15,000 dock workers, has distanced itself from the effort.

In a letter to members sent last month, union president Robert McEllrath said the organization shares Occupy protesters concerns about what they consider corporate abuses, but he said the union was not sanctioning any shutdown.

Protest organizers said on their website that they were acting independent of organized labor only because the unions are "constrained under reactionary, anti-union federal legislation."

Some port workers are also against the planned blockade.

"I'm just barely getting on my feet again after two years, and now I gotta go a day without pay while somebody else has something to say that I'm not really sure is relevant to the cause," trucker Chuck Baca told CNN affiliate KGO.

Port officials say shutting down their facilities will only cost workers and their communities wages and tax revenue."

"Protesters wanted to send a message to the 1% but they are impacting the 99%," said Portland port spokesman Josh Thomas. The stoppage is resulting in "lost shifts, lost wages and delays," he said.

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I see no reason to assume that cultural revolutions must entail the killing of mass numbers of people. In my view, we had a cultural revolution in this country with the ending of Jim Crow, yet, I think you'd be hard pressed to tally "millions of deaths" in service to that change. You are ascribing evil intent to words which can rightly be defined as extremely subjective at best. It's intellectually dishonest, and you really ought to be ashamed.



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Poetsheart wrote:

a cultural revolution eh? someone needs to open a history book.

Just because you disagree, doesn't mean the statement is unlearned. What? Are cultures limited to one revolution in their lifetimes? If China were to undergo mass revolt and turn to Democracy, will that have meant that their first cultural revolution didn't really happen?


 a "cultural revolution" is something very specific.  Millions of people were killed in this revolution.  The sign is calling for that same thing to happen in the USA.  Is it not?

 

If the person with the sign is not advocating for a historically based cultural revolution, what type of cultural revolution is she requesting?  Which culture is she hoping will rise up?

 

If China has a mass revolution and turns to democracy, I'm sure they will not be calling it a "cultural revolution"



-- Edited by soccerguy315 on Friday 25th of November 2011 08:43:07 PM

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I just listened to Seth Mcfarlane, creator of the Family Guy and big time liberal say that he could not understand how the Tea Party people could deny evolution. What an idiot! The Tea Party is an economic party. It does not take a position on evolution and I cannot imagine many tea party members denying evolution. McFarlane is engaging in falsely stereotyping the Tea Party.

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"We feel like this video could be a nice historical document in years to come, should the movement prove more than a flash in the pan."

The definitive "historical document of Occupy Oakland.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/23/occupy-oakland-gay-porn-_n_1110985.html




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a cultural revolution eh? someone needs to open a history book.

Just because you disagree, doesn't mean the statement is unlearned. What? Are cultures limited to one revolution in their lifetimes? If China were to undergo mass revolt and turn to Democracy, will that have meant that their first cultural revolution didn't really happen?



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The idiots who run the great city of Los Angeles blinked. 

They have offered a 10 year lease to the occupiers for $1 a year for them to move away from their current location.  

A few days later, they backpedaled because of the internal dissent and not following proper protocol.  Not to mention, well, what a terribly bad idea it was.  

It's hilarious.

 

 

 

 



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Horton
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WhoVille,  will eventually get one more OWS to get heard. 

"We are Here!" evileye

 



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RE: Occupy Wall Street versus Tea Party
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a cultural revolution eh? someone needs to open a history book.

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But to whom are you speaking in the above sentence? Nobody believes, that--c'mon.

Well, hope, it wasn't addressed to anyone in particular here in this thread, but I can tell you that I have read many a post in various political forums whereupon it has been expressed that the rich are rich because they worked hard for it (invariably), and the poor are poor because they are stupid and lazy, and therefore, deserve their lot in life. That kind of binary thinking always takes my breath away, because it ignores any number of variables that come together and determine one's economic status.

And I think Newt Gingrich's statement during a recent GOP red-meat forum, whereby he dismissed occuply protesters wholesale in suggesting that they merely need take a bath and get a job, was just such an example of idiotic and simplistic thinking. First of all, it suggests that there is no problem with joblessness in this country, merely with people's motivation to work, and secondly, it totally contradicts his stance that unemployment is due to a lack of jobs, and that that lack of jobs rests squarely on the shoulders of the President of The United States. So which is it Mr. Gingrich? You can't have it both ways. And are you really suggesting that all these young people who have worked their asses off to get a good education, often going deep into debt to do so, are suddenly so undisciplined, so stupid, and so lazy, as to no longer desire to work? Really?



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Yeah, how dare they think they had a Constitutional right to peacefully protest---the unmitigated gall!



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I however, don't believe that the pepper spray was out-of-line or outrageous.

The students knew what was about to happen if they persisted.  They persisted and the Police force did as they said they would do. I'd call this incident as lesson of conservativism - obeying the rules and authority. Anything less would be a liberal reaction.evileye



-- Edited by longprime on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 08:27:23 PM

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>Liberals have a stranglehold on public education in this country.<

Observation, empirical, common knowledge, some said so, or a guess?evileye





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I can tell it felt good to get that out, Poet. :) I know the feeling.

. After all, if you're rich, it's because you deserve to be rich, and if you're poor, it's because you deserve to be poor. Simple.

But to whom are you speaking in the above sentence? Nobody believes, that--c'mon.

Education is the great equalizer. Liberals have a stranglehold on public education in this country. Conclusions are obvious.

Edit: I agree about that pepper-spraying though. Outrageous.



-- Edited by hope on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 05:27:05 PM



-- Edited by hope on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 06:15:36 PM

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Yes, we are well and truly screwed. But, as long as "personhood" becomes defined by law as the moment when sperm fertilizes egg, and Big Blue is a person too---well...what more can a red blooded American citizen ask for? Except perhaps, that people in poverty be required to pay federal income taxes, even though they already pay more in some form of taxation as a percentage their income than the massively wealthy, who should, axiomatically, pay less and less federal taxes as a percentage of their income. After all, if you're rich, it's because you deserve to be rich, and if you're poor, it's because you deserve to be poor. Simple.

Yeah. And those kids at UC Davis deserved to be pepper sprayed in the face at point blank range, too. Those cops in riot gear said they felt threatened, so naturally, they must be telling to truth, and that video must have been doctored. Right?confuse



-- Edited by Poetsheart on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 04:48:43 PM



-- Edited by Poetsheart on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 04:50:41 PM

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How The U.S. Is Quickly Becoming A Third World Country

The United States is increasingly similar to a 3rd world county in several ways and is accelerating towards 3rd world status.Economic data indicate a harsh reality that obviates mainstream political debate.The evidence suggests that, without fundamental reforms, the U.S. will become a post industrial neo-3rd-world country by 2032.

Fundamental characteristics that define a 3rd world country include high unemployment, lack of economic opportunity, low wages, widespread poverty, extreme concentration of wealth, unsustainable government debt, control of the government by international banks and multinational corporations, weak rule of law and counterproductive government policies.All of these characteristics are evident in the U.S. today.

Detroit LotOther factors include poor public health, nutrition and education, as well as lack of infrastructure.Public health and nutrition in the U.S., while below European standards, stand well above those of 3rd world countries.American public education now ranks behind poorer countries, like Estonia, but remains superior to that of 3rd world countries.While crumbling infrastructure can be seen in cities across America, the vast infrastructure of the United States cannot be compared to a 3rd world country.However, all of these factors will rapidly deteriorate in a declining economy.

Unemployment and Lack of Economic Opportunity

Unemployment, which is a deep, structural problem in the U.S., is a fundamental challenge to economic opportunity.The U.S. labor market is in a long-term downward trend linked to globalization, i.e., offshoring of manufacturing, outsourcing of jobs and deindustrialization.

The U.S. workforce has declined by approximately 6.5% since its year 2000 peak to roughly 58.2% of working age adults and the U.S. now suffers chronic unemployment of 9.1%.Although the workforce grew in the 1980s and 1990s, as dual income families became the norm, the size of the workforce is shrinking due to a lack of economic opportunity.

click to enlarge

FRED EMRATIO

Officially, long-term unemployment is 16.5% (.pdf) and the ranks of the long-term unemployed (.pdf) (those jobless for 27 weeks and over) include 5.9 million, 42.4% of those unemployed. However, prior to the Clinton administration, unemployment measures included workers who are now no longer counted as part of the workforce.Using the more accurate pre-Clinton criteria, unemployment exceeds 22%, only 3% below the worst point (24.9%) of the Great Depression.For countries with populations greater than 2 million, Macedonia leads the world with 33.8% unemployment, followed by Armenia at 28.6%, Algeria at 27.3% and the West Bank and the Gaza Strip both at 25.7%.

SGS Unemployment

Compounding the unemployment problem is the fact that an entire generation of young Americans is being left behind in terms of economic opportunity.Student loans exceed $1 trillion while the labor force participation rate for those aged 16 to 29 who are working or looking for work fell to 48.8% in 2011, the lowest level ever recorded.Lack of economic opportunity among the youth, including millions of unemployed college graduates, is a political wildcard reminiscent of countries like Tunisia.

The structural decline of the U.S. labor market will continue as American workers are merged into a global labor pool in which they cannot yet directly compete for jobs with workers in countries like China and India.In China, for example, gross pay, in terms of purchasing power parity, is equivalent to approximately $514 per month, 57% below the U.S. poverty line. According to the Economic Policy Institute, the U.S. trade deficit with China alone caused a loss of 2.8 million U.S. jobs since 2001.

Falling Real Wages and Household Incomes

Workers earning more dollars are actually poorer in terms of purchasing power when the cost of living rises faster than wages,.In fact, if household income is adjusted for inflation, most American families have grown significantly poorer over the past ten years.In 2010, for example, real median household income fell 2.3%.Although the average wage has risen steadily in nominal terms, dwindling purchasing power is a reality for most Americans.When adjusted for inflation, the wages of most Americans have not kept up with the Consumer Price Index (CPI).

FRED CPIAUSL

According to famed economist Milton Friedman, “inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon.”In other words, prices rise when the money supply is increased faster than population or sustainable economic activity.Apparent economic growth created through credit expansion, i.e., by increasing the money supply, has a temporary stimulative effect but also causes prices to rise.True Money Supply is an accurate measure of inflation.

True Money Supply (<a href='http://seekingalpha.com/symbol/tms' title='TMS International'>TMS</a>)

Although CPI is sufficient to illustrate declining real wages, CPI does not measure the cost of living in a realistic way.According to economist John Williams of Shadow Government Statistics, CPI systematically understates inflation.

SGS CPI

The decline in real household income has set Americans back to 1996 levels, despite many households now having two incomes rather than one.Dual income families accounted for much of the increase in real median household income during the 1980s and 1990s, but, today, two incomes are barely better than one income was three decades ago.The decline in real wages was obfuscated in the 1980s and 1990s by growth in the workforce, e.g., by women entering the workforce.Real median household income rose while real wages declined because more households had two incomes.

Real Median Household Income

As U.S. wages and household income continue to fall in real terms, both poverty and reliance on government assistance programs will continue to rise.

Growing Poverty

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the poverty rate in the United States rose to 15.7% in 2011, with 47.8 million Americans living in poverty (1 in 6).The official poverty line, determined by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, is $22,314 for a family of four. The number of families living in poverty has risen sharply since 2006 and continues to climb.

Poverty in the United States

The U.S. Department of Agriculture’s Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), commonly known as “food stamps,” serves 45.8 million households as of May 2011.The program now feeds 1 in 8 Americans and nearly 1 in 4 children.

Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (<a href='http://seekingalpha.com/symbol/snap' >SNAP</a>)

Based on the outlook for employment and wages, both poverty and reliance on government assistance programs will continue to grow.However, the negative trends in employment, wages and poverty have not affected all Americans equally.In fact, the household income and wealth of the wealthiest Americans has increased sharply, despite the overall deterioration of the U.S. economy.

Increasing Concentration of Wealth

Alan Greenspan, former Chairman of the Federal Reserve, warned that,

Ultimately, we are interested in the question of relative standards of living and … trends in the distribution of wealth, which, more fundamentally than earnings or income, represents a measure of the ability of households to consume.

In other words, concentration of wealth undermines the consumer base of the economy, causing GDP to decline and resulting in unemployment, which reduces living standards.Obviously, the total wealth of society is reduced when wealth is highly concentrated because there is a lower overall level of economic activity.

Economic data from several sources, including the Congressional Budget Office (CBO), show that wealth and income in the United States have become increasingly concentrated with the wealthiest 1% of Americans owning 38.2% of stock market assets, e.g., shares of businesses.

Distribution of Stock Market Wealth

For the wealthiest 1% of Americans, household income tripled between 1979 and 2007 and has continued to increase while household wealth in the United States has fallen by $7.7 trillion.The Gini Coefficient illustrates the growing disparity in income distribution.

Gini Coefficient

In terms of the Gini Coefficient, the United States is now at parity with China and will soon overtake Mexico, a still developing country.It should be noted, of course, that the U.S. remains a far wealthier country overall.If the current trend continues, however, the U.S. will resemble a 3rd world country, in terms of the disparity in income distribution, in approximately two decades, i.e., by 2032.

Welcome to the 3rd World

The United States is quickly becoming a post industrial neo-3rd-world country.Partly as a consequence of worsening unemployment and lack of economic opportunity, falling real wages and household incomes, growing poverty and increasing concentration of wealth, the U.S. government faces a historic fiscal crisis.Dominant corporate influence over the U.S. government, particularly by large banks, weakening rule of law at the federal level and destructive tax policies are compounding the economic problems facing the United States.

Barring fundamental reforms or a hyperinflationary collapse of the U.S. dollar (due to the fiscal problems of the U.S. government), the deterioration of the U.S. economy will continue and accelerate.As the U.S. economy continues its decline, public health, nutrition and education, as well as the country’s infrastructure, will visibly deteriorate and the 3rd world status of the United States will become apparent.



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Post #77, Do you have a 
guilty dog?
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Do consider the dog's point of view: every day they have to endure watching people prepare, cook & eat the most delicious things. Cooking fills the entire house with the aroma of roasting meat. And then, day after day, they get fed the same old dry kibble in a dish. Unless of course their owner decides to give them a treat... which usually means they are expected to first prove they are slavishly obedient, as the must sit/beg/shake hands/ roll over... or whatever silly thing their owner wants.

So yeah... they steal the good stuff whenever they get the chance. Wouldn't you?

Dogs are going to rule the world. evileyeevileye



-- Edited by longprime on Friday 18th of November 2011 09:53:47 PM

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They'll eventually put all this behind them and go on to become ADA tort specialists and then they can steal all they can carry.



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Oh I'm sure many of the OWS protestors would grab as much as they could, if they thought they would get away with it. They're just angry because they don't have a piece of the action. These people don't stand on any higher moral ground.

Most of them are purely useful idiots anyways, sorry to say.

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They won't do anything like what wall street does because they aren't as big as crooks - did you read the article???



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The OWS protesters will never do anything like what the article john doe pasted suggests because actions like that will affect the protesters. They want benefits, and lots of them, but they want no part whatsoever in paying the price for them. That's somebody else's problem.



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re MOC
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In Oregon we have a lone R as a Member of Congress. He's out campaigning outside his rural district in the metropolitan areas-His message, He's trying to save Medicare D. evileye  His district, which is 75% of the land area of OR, has >12% unemployement. 



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RE: Occupy Wall Street versus Tea Party
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Here's what the OWS should really have done:

"How to steal like Wall Street"

  •  

    BOSTON (Marke****ch) — It’s a lucky thing these kids only tried to “occupy” Wall Street.

    If they’d been really radical they would have done something much more dangerous.

    They would have just imitated Wall Street.

    Everyone now knows the rules down on America’s Street of Shame. These are almost the exact opposite of the rules in the real, normal, moral economy the rest of us inhabit.

    On Wall Street, you take every nickel and dime you can get your hands on. If it’s not nailed down, it’s yours. You take without conscience or shame. If you see a blind man selling pencils on the street, steal the pencils. Steal his pennies. Steal his dog.

    On Wall Street, you gamble. You gamble big. But you gamble with other people’s money.

    Borrow as much as you can. If it doesn’t work out, too bad — for someone else. Heads you win, tails they lose.

    MF Global, anyone?

    There is no limit to how much money you should take. As P.T. Barnum might have said, if he had had the benefit of an MBA, “there’s an investor born every minute.”

    And “never give a bondholder an even break.”

    After all, it’s not stealing if you get away with it. And because you — or your cronies — write the laws, you get away with everything.

    You think I’m exaggerating. But reflect that the top 10 people at Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers walked away with nearly $1 billion before those banks collapsed. A billion dollars. That money went to yachts and mansions and mink coats. The people who ran subprime firms like Countrywide Financial walked away with fortunes. Ditto all those mortgage brokers who got paid to sucker people into dangerous loans.

    Do you think they’re giving back a nickel or a dime? Do you think they are staying awake at nights? Lehman Brothers creditors lost their shirts. Little old ladies who had been sold Lehman Brothers “principal protection notes” as “safe” investments for their life savings lost everything. They’re eating cat food, while the former honchos eat foie gras. Do you think those honchos could care less? And do you think they look at this economy as a “recession”?

    You dummy. They’re laughing into their martinis. Ha, ha! Yes, let the good times roll.

    Reflect, too, that the bonus bonanza has been back on Wall Street for at least two years now.

    Meanwhile, if you’re waiting for politicians to get tough on the bankers, you will wait in vain. The 60 Minutes expose reveals just how corrupt Washington is. Read my earlier column on a nation of suckers.

    According to the Center for Responsive Politics, which tracks campaign contributions, Big Finance has already given $122 million to the candidates for the 2011-12 races. That’s with a year still to go. Learn more.

    That’s more than any other group. It’s three times as much as the entire health industry has given, and six times as much as labor. These candidates are bought and paid for. They know who they work for, and it isn’t you.

    “The banking lobbyist is on line two, Senator. He says it’s urgent.”

    Which brings us to “Occupy Wall Street,” and the protest movement.

    Wall Street couldn’t care less about this nonsense. The really rich and powerful aren’t commuting in to offices every day on the subway. This doesn’t affect them at all. They’re riding into work in heated limousines, laughing at the cold, damp kids in the park.

    There’s only one thing that terrifies these people. Only one thing that keeps them up at night.

    Riots? Revolution? Nah.

    Credit cards.

    The banks may be greedy. But they are also really, really stupid. They will send out credit cards to anyone, based only on a “credit score” that’s easy to manipulate.

    (The credit scores are a joke. Mine isn’t perfect, a bank told me, because I “haven’t borrowed enough.” In other words, they’d prefer I owed more money before they lent to me. Really, you couldn’t make these clowns up.)

    If OWS really wanted to hit the banks where it hurts, they wouldn’t have wasted their time camping out in the cold, and holding up signs till their fingers turned blue.

    They’ve have taken out every new credit card they could get. Lots of them. Card after card.

    They would have done what Wall Street does. They would have borrowed every nickel they could.

    And then they would have high-tailed it to the Bahamas.

    Mai-tais in the Jacuzzi. The presidential suite. These kids are 26 and unemployed. How good does this sound?

    And when the money was gone, they’d have said to the banks, “Too bad, suckers. Sue us!”

    Good luck with that.

    America’s bankruptcy laws are crazy. You can shelter all sorts of money in things like 401(k) plans and still walk away. By the standards of the real, “moral” economy they are unconscionable.

    They are, in a word, as immoral as Wall Street. They let borrowers treat Wall Street the way Wall Street treats everyone else. Look at the behavior on the Street of Shame and tell me I’m wrong.

    Actually, maybe the real way to imitate Wall Street would be to borrow every nickel on these credit cards, head to Vegas, and wager the money on black.

    Heads, you keep the profits. Tails... say, anyone seen Dick Fuld lately? Angelo Mozilo? Jon Corzine?

    Yes, if the protesters did this there would be chaos. Mayhem. A new financial crisis. Heavens, we might even have to change the system.

    (You can bet Congress would lose this bankruptcy loophole faster than they’d change the law against insider dealing by congressmen).

    All in all, it’s a lucky thing this strategy didn’t occur to the protesters. Or, just as likely, it probably did occur to some of them — but they considered it grossly immoral.

    Phew!

    Instead they have spent two months camping out in the cold, eating lentil curry, while the bankers got fatter and fatter. Ha, ha!

    As the rich man shouts to The Dude in The Big Lebowski, “Your revolution is over, Mr. Lebowski! Condolences. The bums lost…. The bums will always lose!”

    And so they do.



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Date: Nov 17, 2011
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I love the Brooklyn Bridge. Its construction was a painstaking labor of love, and many men died while working on it.  The idea that this is where these nitwits have chosen to focus their "protest"  makes me feel .



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OccupyDC is planning to march from McPherson Square to the Key Bridge tomorrow from 2-6pm...

don't think that time slot is going to win them many supporters among motorists.

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That made me start my morning with a smile, longprime---always a good thing!  smile



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Congratulations, Hope.

      

           

I could only get a few of my emoticons to do some celebrations. Most of them are on loan to the OWS and A-OWS. Some are looking for other employment. I don't pay them much.

evileye



-- Edited by longprime on Tuesday 15th of November 2011 09:54:04 PM

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Just heard Van Jones direct us to this site:

http://november17.org/

Power to the People!!!!



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I was wondering how posters had access to all those other emoticons and did all that fancy indentation, etc.!

Ok, here goes. I guess this site is kind of interesting and relevant to this topic:

http://occupywallst.org/

Did it!

 

 



-- Edited by hope on Tuesday 15th of November 2011 07:09:46 PM



-- Edited by hope on Tuesday 15th of November 2011 07:11:25 PM

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I started the board, moderated it and didn't discover that little link for weeks.

It kind of disappears, which is interesting since it's right there. I still overlooked it dozens of times!

 Try a link, Hope.  It's really way easier than you think!

 



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Thanks, SLS.

I guess I never noticed that. disbelief



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At the bottom of every new post page, there is a "Posting How-To" blue link. Click on it.  It's right below the Submit Post bubble.  

When I copy and paste the information on that page,  it shows up differently and won't help you.  
 



-- Edited by SamuraiLandshark on Tuesday 15th of November 2011 05:33:17 PM

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It's extremely hard to explain, but very easy to put up a link.  

 

You are going to use these [        ]  and the words either, url or /url

 

Before the link: with the word url in the [     ] brackets 

At the end of the link: you will do another of [       ], but with a /url

 

Try it.  

 

 

 



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No tents allowed:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/16/nyregion/occupy-wall-street-organizers-consider-value-of-camps.html?hp&gwh=BA3B01442BD5C92DBE33188373A8ED2E

 

"On Monday, the Canadian magazine Adbusters, which conceived of the movement, indicated that the protesters should “declare victory” and head indoors to strategize."

 

I think  maybe everyone is over there reading that Sandusky thread. smile

 

Would someone be kind enough to show me how to do an actual link on here?



-- Edited by hope on Tuesday 15th of November 2011 04:57:14 PM

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Zoosermom! So good to see you back!



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Maybe not. A judge here issued a restraining order against the City.  A hearing will be held this morning.



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The Party's Over....

Wall Street protesters ousted from Zuccotti Park

NEW YORK (AP) — Police cleared New York's Zuccotti Park early Tuesday so that sanitation crews could clean the site Occupy Wall Street protesters have inhabited for two months, while in Berkeley, Calif., activists planned another attempt at setting up a new camp.

Concerns about health and safety issues at Occupy Wall Street camps around the country have intensified, and protesters have been ordered to take down their shelters, adhere to curfews and relocate so that parks can be cleaned.

At about 1 a.m. Tuesday, New York City police handed out notices from Brookfield Office Properties, owner of Zuccotti Park, and the city saying that the park had to be cleared because it had become unsanitary and hazardous. Protesters were told they could return in several hours, but without sleeping bags, tarps or tents.

Minutes later, the mayor's office tweeted that the protesters should "temporarily leave."

Police in riot gear filled the streets, car lights flashing and sirens blaring. Protesters, some of whom shouted angrily at police, began marching to two locations in Lower Manhattan where they planned to hold rallies.

Paul Brown, a spokesman for the New York Police Department, said arrests had been made.

Some protesters refused to leave the park, but many left peacefully.

Ben Hamilton, 29, said he was arrested "and I was just trying to get away" from the fray.

Rabbi Chaim Gruber, an Occupy Wall Street member, said police officers were clearing the streets near Zuccotti Park.

"The police are forming a human shield, and are pushing everyone away," he said.

Jake Rozak, another protester, said police "had their pepper spray out and were ready to use it."

Notices given to the protesters said the park "poses an increasing health and fire safety hazard to those camped in the park, the city's first responders and the surrounding community."

It said that tents, sleeping bags and other items had to be removed because "the storage of these materials at this location is not allowed." Anything left behind would be taken away, the notices said, giving an address at a sanitation department building where items could be picked up.

Alex Hall, 21, of Brooklyn, said police walked into the park "stepping on tents and ripping them out,"

The New York Times reported that the clearing out of Zuccotti Park came as protesters announced on their website that they planned to "shut down Wall Street" with a demonstration on Thursday to commemorate the completion of two months of the beginning of the encampment, which has spurred similar demonstrations across the country.

On Monday, a small group of demonstrators, including local residents and merchants, protested at City Hall. In recent weeks, they have urged the mayor to clear out the park because of its negative impact on the neighborhood and small businesses.

Occupy encampments have come under fire around the country as local officials and residents have complained about possible health hazards and ongoing inhabitation of parks and other public spaces.

Anti-Wall Street activists intend to converge at the University of California, Berkeley on Tuesday for a day of protests and another attempt to set up an Occupy Cal camp, less than a week after police arrested dozens of protesters who tried to pitch tents on campus.

The Berkeley protesters will be joined by Occupy Oakland activists who said they would march to the UC campus in the afternoon. Police cleared the tent city in front of Oakland City Hall before dawn Monday and arrested more than 50 people amid complaints about safety, sanitation and drug use.



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In Philadelphia, Mayor Michael Nutter on Sunday ordered beefed-up police patrols at the city's protest site, saying conditions were "dramatically deteriorating."

"This movement has changed and the people have changed," he said. "We are now at a critical point where we must reevaluate our entire relationship with this very changed group."

He said communication has broken down between officials and protesters, and city concerns over fire hazards, litter and a lack of toilets have gone unaddressed.

Added to that are thefts, assaults and an alleged sexual attack at the camp at Dilworth Plaza, he said in a statement.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45271511/ns/today-today_news/t/portland-police-dismantle-occupy-camps-after-confrontation/#.TsCdeVYRDMo

 

 



-- Edited by hope on Sunday 13th of November 2011 08:49:04 PM

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So here’s my question: If the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977 effectively caused the Wall Street meltdown of 2007 by forcing banks to make bad home loans to improvident poor people (and we all know exactly who I mean), how come it took 30 years for the housing bubble to burst?

Somewhere tonight, someone's reading that, nodding, and silently mouthing: GW borrowing all that money for that war he started for his daddy.

That hook about "we all know exactly who I mean" is inspired, pure "stop talking about it or we'll all pout and call you the racist we want you to be", but the answer is pretty bland:

Ponzi schemes, even with the full backing of the US government, eventually collapse.



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Banks (Financial Companies) and Politicians have the unique ability to bring a society down without its citizentry outright knowing the consequences. 

In the current USA economics, I would guess that only few hundred people made decisions that brought us to where we are now. Imagine if then CEOs of Countrywide, Washington Mutual, AIG, Citigroup, Merrill Lynch, Bear Stearns, Wachovia, GM, GoldmanSachs, POTUS, made conservative fiscal and policy decisions . 

I think that the TP's and OWS's both recognize how leadership kinda got out-of-hand by being too concentrated. 



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That's the point. The "movement" has deteriorated to such a point that I am very very surprised there are any defenders left. There are not many remaining but "bottom feeders." How could there be? Aren't most people out there attempting to find a job/earn a living/take care of their families?

At this point, the "movement" is taking precious resources away from the contributing members of society, and creating an environment which is leading to real harm to real people.

My question might be: why would anyone still be on board to defend it?

The thing has been going on for over two months and this is what it has become. Think twice before you accuse critics of having an agenda.



-- Edited by hope on Sunday 13th of November 2011 05:27:11 PM

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Does anyone actually think this rapist was "part of the movement"? I think he traveled to Philly to see what opportunities might be available to a social predator like himself. It's quite frankly insulting to equate/conflate such a bottom feeder to a legitimate social movement. But, if it serves your agenda to do so, (shrug) have at it. But don't expect anyone to be fooled into believing you're engaging in reasoned analysis...yawn



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I see convergence, not parallelism. 

However, the Republican Party, I see divergence from within.



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I think it's time to call an end to any and all attempts to draw parallels between the two:

 

Woman Raped at Occupy Philadelphia

A woman protester at the Occupy Philadelphia encampment at City Hall was raped in a tent, allegedly by a man who had traveled from out of state to join the protest, police said.

The suspect was arrested almost immediately after the alleged attack, and the woman is with the police Special Victims Unit.

The alleged rapist is reported to have been arrested multiple times in connection with a string of armed robberies in Kalamazoo, Mich., officials said.



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Very funny. Well, we do get to see the forest (including the trees) after takeoff and during approach to landing.

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At your working height, I am surprised that you can see the forest. I need to get your gogglesevileye 



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Unfortunately the forest is composed of a minute amount of spindly, though worthy trees. Obscured by a massive canopy of rotten trees that all but envelopes it.

No matter what one might wish. You can't turn off every single picture you see of these people, and every single article you read. There are shreds of truths and valid ideas that appear, but it seems one has to look long and hard for them, through the hyperbole, the bs, and the selfishness.


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Can't see the forest for the trees.   Oh well.  



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