Political & Elections

to the Right we go. 

"which way things are going to fall..."

Then we will take a very long fall. 

For a moment, I thought it was just you and me that couldn't find anything better to do than haunt the house, lp, but there may be a little life left in this venture.

Taxing rent-seeking ex-politicians, at that special rate that they seem to be just fine with for the bare majority that does pay taxes, seems like a pretty damn fine idea. They seem assured that they're a special class - why not treat them like one.

I wish the forecasters and our legislators actually walk amongst us, incognito, and really understand our plight. I understand that's hard to ignore those who talk the loudest and have the money to gain access. 

IT'S NOT TAXES STUPID, ITS FINDING AN ECONOMIC BASE TO BUILD UPON!

I want stiffer penalities for white collar crime and draconian clawback provisions.

The government is not allowed to fine people enough to discourage outright theft and fraud.

This is one place where the Chinese are superior to us in how this kind of thing is discouraged, BigG -- maybe we should have demanded and been satisfied with Tony Hayward's head, instead of $20,000,000,000 from BP.

Not to mention the regulatory goat-roping that's resulted in better than a quarter-million barrels/day of off-shore oil production being unrealized.

BigG wrote:

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I want stiffer penalities for white collar crime and draconian clawback provisions.

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That's fine, but very few broke any laws. I'll take what I can get, and that's an Apology. 

I want stiffer penalities for white collar crime and draconian clawback provisions.

The government is not allowed to fine people enough to discourage outright theft and fraud.

Steal a hundred million and pay a few million in fines? Who wouldn't do that if they could even knowing they would eventually be caught? Not that they often are and the ex post facto clause in the Constitution makes innovative scams attractive.

What happened to financial reform? DOA, killed by the real masters/rulers of America.

You may very well be right, lp -- I was sure for the longest time (and said so several times on CC) that Pelosi wouldn't make all her foot soldiers walk the plank by passing Obamacare and as it turned out, I was not only wrong but dead wrong.

Forecasting how stupid someone, or a whole bunch of someones, can be is pretty much a sucker's bet.

There is an element of virtue in consistency.

"One caveat - unless Huntsman has a skeleton in his closet he could give Obama a run for his money."

I wouldn't expect that. I could be wrong. The Huntsman family are pillars of the LDS church. The very limited personal contact I had with Jon Sr. 20 or so years ago gave me the impression that he is a sincere and devout man.

The real question is whether the far righteous evangelicals will vote for a Mormon.
Of course many would consider it a choice between a Mormon and a Muslim...

Note that I myself am that rarest of all ecclesiastical species, a liberal Baptist. We jokingly refer to ourselves as the Baptist Episcopal church.

My comment pertains to the oft leveled accusations of arrogance against Obama, which I've always found rather irksome. I don't see Obama as being any more arrogant than any other politician who has either run for or held the office of President

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I think it's the fact that when speaking he uses the word "I" all the time.  It sounds very self-centered.  Even when speaking to those who were responsible for taking out Osama, he still used the word "I" something like 40 times within a rather short speech.  It was about THEM and the country at large....not about him.

Obama's problem will be that he has lost too many of the non-black voters who were voting for him simply to help the first AA get elected.  That was their united theme in 'O8.   Every one of my in-laws (and H has a huge family) voted for Obama for that reason ALONE (and these are all highly educated people).  None of them will vote for him next time.  None.

There's no "there, there."   An empty suit that can deliver a great speech - he should have been an actor.

Poetsheart, the comment about it bieng easier to be President of China was whiny and  bitchy, his constant blaming of Bush at this juncture is whiny and bitchy, the way he treated Paul Ryan at the budget speech and the Supreme Court at the SOTU.  He's just become a nasty, snarky, bitchy man who blames everyone and anyone else.  It's not becoming, it's not leadership and it's not uplifting in any way.  As you know, I was always predisposed to cut him a break (not the least for his lovely wife and beautiful daughters), but he needs to get his mojo back, find some gratitude and appreciation and re-dedicate himself.

Quote: I think it is very hard to sift the personal through the political. No modern candidate was accused of elitism more than John Kerry (the last candidate on the Dem ticket). Not even President Obama./Quote

Quite true concerning Kerry (for whom I did not vote, btw). But, I didn't see him as an elitist so much as a pompous bloviator. That really turned me off. For the record, I want our President to be elite. I want him or her to be the best educated (which is not merely defined by where one earned one's degree(s), but by intellectual yearning, a propensity to read widely, an ability to synthesize disperate advice and information, in other words, elite critical thinking skills) best able to handle the pressures and demands required to carry out such an extremely difficult job, best able to adapt and change as situations dictate, best able to learn from his/her mistakes (which will be inevitable), etc. I don't give a rat's ass whether or not he/she is someone with whom I'd enjoy having a beer. That meme is just cold comfort against the reality that one's candidate/President might be entirely too pedestrian, too ordinary a man or woman to hold such a important job. 

As long as our President du jour seems to have as many as the above outlined traits as possible and I believe he/she has a sincere desire to do right by this country and all its people, I'll be happy. Suffice it to say I haven't really been happy with a President in a long time; Though with the exception of a lack of judgment in his personal life, in hindsight, I believe Clinton came close. I'm embarrassed to admit, though, that the political noise machine rendered me largely unable to see those traits while he held office.

I don't see Obama as particularly elitist, but I work in Big Law, so he's of the population with which I'm very comfortable and familiar.  What I do see is a strong propensity to whiny bitchiness and being just downright unpleasant.  Whether he has to be is a whole other question, but I don't think the man is particulary likeable anymore. And I was always going to give him the benefit of the doubt in that regard (although I still think -- accusations of racism aside -- that he looks better in business or evening attire than in a bathing suit), but I always wondered if he was up to the job.  Seems he isn't.  Not for lack of smarts or credentials, but for lack of experience and the leadership mentality.

Quote:Obama comes across as an elitist who is sure that he knows better than everyone else does, and he's going to ignore what anyone else thinks because he is such a non-emotional intellectual./Quote

Arrogant means Ivy League intellectual? So, you can graduate from an Ivy League institution, but as long as you show no sign of having the intelligence worthy of that institution, you're okay to lead the richest and most powerful nation on earth?  As long as you come off as a good 'ole boy while "ignoring what everyone else thinks" you can't possibly be called arrogant? If you don't emote and are calm and self-possessed, that means you're an arrogant elitist? Got it.

Let me tell you what would happen if Obama had come across as a regular "good 'ole boy" : First, he would definitely not have been deemed intellectually qualified for the job---especially since black people are believed to be considerably less intelligent than whites (or any other race of person, for that matter).  But the irony is, even as on the one hand, the right criticizes him as an intellectual elitist, they are now hard at work questioning his intellectual qualifications for the education which he received. Again, Catch-22. Let me tell you what would happen if he were "more emotional": He'd be considered an emotionally unstable black man, especially if he expressed any level of anger---nothing scarier than an angry black man.... And yet, apparently, Cool Under Fire is only admirable if you're a white Commander In Chief... Got it.

-- Edited by Poetsheart on Thursday 28th of April 2011 12:04:41 AM

My comment pertains to the oft leveled accusations of arrogance against Obama, which I've always found rather irksome. I don't see Obama as being any more arrogant than any other politician who has either run for or held the office of President. Politicians are almost always somewhat arrogant. It's part of the job description as far as I've been able to ascertain. It takes a staggering dose of arrogance to assume that one is fit to preside as President over the wealthest and most power nation on the planet. Someone please show me how Obama is any more arrogant than George Bush (both of them), Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton, or John F. Kennedy? It should be obvious to the most casual observer that Donald Trump is one of the world's most arrogant men. And yes, he'll be called that because it's astoundingly true. But, white men have always enjoyed the privilege of thinking highly of themselves. When black men do so, it offends many people because blacks are viewed to have too many genetic deficits to justify arrogance. The word "uppity" is often applied to such.

And no, I'm not talking about everybody. Just a lot more people than most people will ever admit exist.

Quote: poetsheart, have you ever met Trump in person?  If you don't like what you see on TV, let me tell you, it's double in person, when no cameras are there to temper his arrogance and ego.  He marches in, of course doens't shake hands, and calls everyone (including the gov in the room) by their first names, but insists everyone in the room call him "Mr. Trump".  And he has a bunch of toadies with him, who probably unzip his zipper when he needs to go to the bathroom.  He's a disgusting human being./Quote

Believe it or not, Hayden, that is exactly the impression he gives off. It was abundantly clear that he's an ecotistical son of a bitch during an interview with Elliott Spitzer I saw on CNN. If he were ever elected President, all the things conservatives have said about Obama's supposed "arrogance" would pale by comparison, but in Trumps case, he would be seen as entitled to it in a way a black man never is.

Ohio is weird. I also got a SIL in Ohio. 

My sister lives in Ohio, which for the past 2 elections really gained clout. In 08 it went to Obama, in 04 it was Bush. She visited last month, and we were talking about Obama being re-elected, I said he will def. be re-elected. Her response was not in Ohio. She is quasi liberal.  She likes to pretend that she is liberal, but like many Americans not if it is in her backyard.

That shocked me immensely.
She stated that nobody in her circle will vote for him.
I asked would they vote for an R?
She replied no.
So I said he still wins.

She than stated no he doesn't...it will be 04 all over again...the R's will still vote because statistically they always vote. Voters like me only come out if they can get behind a candidate.

Is it wrong that she won't vote? Yes, and I told her fine, don't vote, but don't beaach either because you lost that right when you don't vote.

She replied, have you ever heard me beaach if I don't vote? No, I haven't.

If she is right, he is losing his base, and that makes it a game changer.

Two things can happen.
1. Clinton V Dole...R's put up wallpaper as their nom. Obama wins
2. Bush V Gore ... D's base isn't there like it was for Clinton and R's win.

It really is up to the R's now. Unfortunately at this time I don't see any R that will make it scenario #2.

quote:As for Trump, he's just getting on my nerves. Did he go after Bush for his less than stellar academic record (serious question)? And who cares if Obama did well or did not do well in school. I wasn't aware that getting a 4.0 was now a job requirement or even indicative of how one would do as president./quote

Yeah, and why am I not surprised that Trump would appeal to the racial resentment inherent in the "where are his transcripts?" question? It strolls hand in hand with the Birther's "He's not one of us" crowd. Two sides of the same unseemly coin. I never did hold Donal Trump in very high regard. Now, I can't stand to even look at him.

I'll lay bets with both you and soccerguy, busdriver.

Mostly because I believe that, along with lingering resentment from the last two years legislative accomplishments, the same things that tripped up Carter are going to be in full swing by next summer.

I don't think you'll need another Reagan to beat him... heck, I don't even believe you needed Reagan to beat the old Carter.

The Donald has gotten a suprising amount of mileage out his schtick, hasn't he? Kind of makes me wonder if Democrat's policy of lumping anyone entertaining any idle notions about what might be on the original in with the birthers will turn out to have been a wise political move.

As long as O was a blank slate and selling himself as a post-partisan healer, I think the questions seemed kind of petty and mean, at least to all those independent voters. Now that they know him a great deal better, well, they may not feel quite as generous to him. We'll see.