Political & Elections

BigG · Guru

US Army 'kill team' in Afghanistan posed for photos of murdered civilians

busdriver11 · Guru

"Poetsheart asks a good question. I don't know the answer, but I wonder if it might be that the pictures involve dead people not live ones as in 2003 in Iraq? Humiliating dead bodies is bad but maybe humiliating live bodies is worse, relatively speaking."

Isn't the greater issue that supposedly these civilians were murdered? That they weren't combatants in any way, but they were killed for the pure sport of it? Then the pictures were taken as trophies and passed around like trading cards? That there are other "kill teams" going around murdering civilians and posing with their unjustly, brutually murdered bodies?

In comparison, it makes the Abu Ghraib misdeeds look like fraternity pranks (no offense intended to you frat boys).

Razorsharp · Guru

Poetsheart asks a good question. I don't know the answer, but I wonder if it might be that the pictures involve dead people not live ones as in 2003 in Iraq? Humiliating dead bodies is bad but maybe humiliating live bodies is worse, relatively speaking.

Poetsheart · Senior Member

And our national news is still mysteriously quite concerning this incident. Why isn't this front page news?

-- Edited by Poetsheart on Thursday 24th of March 2011 01:34:10 AM

ImSoAnarchist · Senior Member

One of the reasons why young people make such good soldiers is that you can always explain away their over zealnousness (real word?) to youth and passion

And you can manipulate them into thinking killing is brave, courageous, and heroic. Poor, young people, brainwashed into bloodthirsty, barbaric monsters.

-- Edited by ImSoAnarchist on Wednesday 23rd of March 2011 11:06:17 PM

longprime · Guru

not disagreeing.

One of the reasons why young people make such good soldiers is that you can always explain away their over zealnousness (real word?) to youth and passion. evileye

If the problem is about money, then you blame the older guy. evileye

BigG · Guru

They were going to do that anyway.

"We" are not "them" and only a generations' long effort to completely destroy and supplant the indigenous culture can change that.

We are whining after only ten years.

These pictures are the "tip of the iceburg".

Imagine some other culture had the wherewithall to invade the US and try to change its way of life. How would you feel about that? What would you do?

I would smile to their faces and kill them when possible.

I have no expectation that any other human being would react any differently.

Who knew they would kill and die for their "way of life"? It is entirely without precedent in the annals of human civilization!

We are not the "good guys" any more. We are degrading our own society by the stress of this pointless war.

How much is a General's or a President's ego worth?

-- Edited by BigG on Wednesday 23rd of March 2011 02:29:20 PM

-- Edited by BigG on Wednesday 23rd of March 2011 02:31:17 PM

Canuckguy · Veteran Member

I think they will hate us, forever.

busdriver11 · Guru

"Leadership is everything.
Some one made a decision on the DeepWater Horizon.
Some one made a decision on the Japanese Nuclear Plants.
Some one made a decision on Libya."

Of course, the leaders make the big decisions. But unless they are encouraging those whom they lead to abuse and murder unarmed civilians, the individuals who are choosing to go rogue and do that are the ones responsible. Our soldiers are not just a bunch of dumb zombies wandering around the desert with no responsibility whatsoever, muttering, "Obama made me do it," or "Bush, made me do it." And they need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. If their superiors were negligent or overlooking and encouraging their behavior, the military needs to go after them too.

But the reality is, when a small group of people do terrible things on their own, in what is obviously not directed by ANY administration, it is the Obama administration's worst nightmare for these kind of actions....those soldiers are responsible. Not a past or current president.

It's all along the lines of...."Well, Mom and Dad, you gave me life, it's your fault. If I hadn't have been born, I wouldn't have robbed that bank. If you hadn't moved to Colorado, I wouldn't have met my girlfriend, whom I beat up. It's your fault, not mine."

Poetsheart · Senior Member

I think I'm going to be sick....But, my quesiton is, why hasn't this already been splashed all over the news here? I did hear "mention" of an Afghan security guard on one of our bases there opening fire on troops who were cleaning their weapons. He killed two of our soldiers before he was shot and killed. Do you think he might have caught wind of the Der Speigel story?

longprime · Guru

RE: US Army 'kill tdam' in Afghanistan posed for photos of murdered civilians

ImSoAnarchist · Senior Member

RE: US Army 'kill team' in Afghanistan posed for photos of murdered civilians

busdriver11 · Guru

"Note the part about "permanent US bases"?
Note the plural nature of the BASES.

Paid for HOW!!! Paid for WHY???"

I'd imagine that statement about the permanent bases slipped by most people. It is INCREDIBLE that we are actually trying to do that. We will be there forever. And probably in a few years will be working on bases in Libya too.

busdriver11 · Guru

"Panties on the head looks like harmless fun now, doesn't it?"

You betcha (as everyone's favorite annoying Republican female former governor likes to say).

And so does making prisoner pyramids, and pretending to flush Qur'ans down the toilet, I'll add.

BigG · Guru

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,752310,00.html

Note the part about "permanent US bases"?
Note the plural nature of the BASES.

Paid for HOW!!! Paid for WHY???

We are closing bases in the US which help local economies and opening ones in an antagonistic culture.

We are borrowing money to do this as we cut education and other social programs.

We can't even have the quality of national health insurance/national health service enjoyed by the other G8 nations.

The "elite" leadership of this country has just gotten plain dam stupid.

Jesus! No wonder the TEA Party is gaining adherents. Anything is better than the current Republican and Democratic leadership.

-- Edited by BigG on Monday 21st of March 2011 07:46:04 PM

-- Edited by BigG on Monday 21st of March 2011 07:46:39 PM

catahoula · Guru

Truth is, the behavior of these immoral idiots (if this is proven true, not photo shopped) is not the fault of any president. It is the fault of the individuals. No matter what group of people you have, there will always be some who are innately stupid or evil. It's human nature. Most soldiers are moral, intelligent people, but they represent a cross segment of society and when young people have a tremendous amount of power, high powered weapons and opportunity, some will do horrendous things. Has it not always been that way, throughout history and throughout the world? The only difference is now we have ready cameras and the internet.

Bingo, budriver.

Panties on the head looks like harmless fun now, doesn't it?

busdriver11 · Guru

"We will be out of Afghanistan when the R Congress says that Pres Obama is not showing leadership on this matter or when R's or TP's present a presidential candidate who's opposed to the continuation of W's folly."

Blaming this one on Bush still? Wonder how long that can last. Perhaps there is a way some will blame our enty into Libya on him too.

Truth is, the behavior of these immoral idiots (if this is proven true, not photo shopped) is not the fault of any president. It is the fault of the individuals. No matter what group of people you have, there will always be some who are innately stupid or evil. It's human nature. Most soldiers are moral, intelligent people, but they represent a cross segment of society and when young people have a tremendous amount of power, high powered weapons and opportunity, some will do horrendous things. Has it not always been that way, throughout history and throughout the world? The only difference is now we have ready cameras and the internet.

BigG · Guru

There is nothing new under the sun.

Chocolate or vanilla, its all ice cream.

The neocons want "one world" under US hegemony. They still occupy positions of power and influence.

The libs want "one world" with US style sociocultural systems.
"You can have any kind of culture you want as long as it is similar to ours"

Neither cares about indigenous cultures or values unless they happen to match our own.

Both are so surprised when the locals kill to defend their way of life.

The old Soviet Union did not fall due to military conquest. Why have we abandoned the strategy and tactics that served us well in the Cold War in favor of open use of armed might?

Razorsharp · Guru

The neocons have been gone for two years. Obama is the new neocon.

CelticClan07 · Senior Member

This is PBO's Abu Ghraib. Now let's see if the US press, pundits and libs unravel, screams and holler about it.

longprime · Guru

We will be out of Afghanistan when the R Congress says that Pres Obama is not showing leadership on this matter or when R's or TP's present a presidential candidate who's opposed to the continuation of W's folly.

Has long as there is still a intact teacup in the china shop. We will stay.

BigG · Guru

Had they welcomed us as liberators yet?

Too late.

From the neocon perspective its not the crime, its the coverup.

Or rather the lack thereof...

I can't believe idiots like the guys who posed made it through training, let alone got turned lose with a gun.

Does any rational human being suspose anything on a cellphone or on the net or even on a hard land line is secret?

-- Edited by BigG on Monday 21st of March 2011 04:14:33 PM

ImSoAnarchist · Senior Member

I guarantee the neocons will be angrier that this was exposed than they will that it occurred.

romanigypsyeyes · Guru

This makes me sick.

What scares me more is whether or not the people who did this (cut fingers off the dead?!) were sadistic like that before they entered the military, or if the military training and/or war made them that way. [Note: This is in no way a dig against the military. I come from a military family and have far too many military friends. It is just something I've always wondered about the military/war mindset. Perhaps someone in the military could comment on this. My family members who were in war absolutely refuse to talk about it.] The psyche of some of these veterans coming home just scares me (friends included) and it doesn't seem like we have nearly the resources to help these soldiers deal with things like this.

I have a lot of thoughts in my head, but they're not translating to type right now. So I'll just leave with that.

Razorsharp · Guru

This is not going to be good.

ImSoAnarchist · Senior Member

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/21/us-army-kill-team-afghanistan-posed-pictures-murdered-civilians