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Political & Elections -> Political & Elections - 2014 -> New North Korean Nuke Test Pending?
Post Info TOPIC: New North Korean Nuke Test Pending?
soccerguy315


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Date: Feb 20, 2011
RE: New North Korean Nuke Test Pending?
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this is my point:

If we attack DPRK now, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people die.

If we do not attack DPRK now, no (or very few) people will die in the short term, and MAYBE hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people will die in the long term.

You are advocating a policy that guarantees death for hundreds of thousands (if not millions). I am advocating a policy that does not guarantee hundreds of thousands of people will die.

IMO, the situation will not change very much based on who attacks first. So, if the US attacks first, we start nuclear war. If DPRK attacks first, they start nuclear war. The end result is the same, but in my strategy, the US will have worldwide backing and full political support.

You seem pretty sure DPRK will launch a nuclear missile at the US. Why would they do this? It would guarantee a nuclear response from the US that flattens all of DPRK.

Do you think the US can eliminate all of the DPRK troops and conventional weapons on the border before they kill Seoul?

I do not believe the "available hard data" supports the US instigating nuclear war.

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BigG


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Date: Feb 20, 2011
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I am sorry, what was your point?

Available hard data supports the wisdom of killing them now.

Or spending a trillion bucks we don't have on a missile defense system.

Perhaps we should just wait until North Korea pops a nuke over San Francisco.
Then we can retaliate with a clear conscience.

-- Edited by BigG on Sunday 20th of February 2011 09:00:29 PM

-- Edited by BigG on Sunday 20th of February 2011 09:04:03 PM

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soccerguy315


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Date: Feb 20, 2011
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here's the part of a Congressional Research Service report regarding delivery systems from January, 2011

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Although former Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) Director Lowell Jacoby told the Senate Armed Services Committee in April 2005 that North Korea had the capability to arm a missile with a nuclear device, Pentagon officials later backtracked from that assessment. A DNI report to Congress says that “North Korea has short and medium range missiles that could be fitted with nuclear weapons, but we do not know whether it has in fact done so.”79 North Korea has several hundred short-range Scud-class and medium range No Dong-class ballistic missiles, and is developing an intermediate range ballistic missile. The Taepo-Dong-2 that was tested unsuccessfully in July 2006 would be able to reach the continental United States if it becomes operational. DNI assessed in 2008 that the Taepo-Dong-2 has the potential capability to deliver a nuclear-weapon-sized payload to the United States, but that absent successful testing the likelihood of this is low.80 A launch of a Taepo-Dong 2 missile as part of a failed satellite launch in April 2009 traveled further than earlier unsuccessful launches but still did not achieve a complete test.

It is possible that Pakistani scientist A.Q. Khan may have provided North Korea the same Chinese-origin nuclear weapon design he provided to Libya and Iran. Even though that design was for an HEU-based device, it would still help North Korea develop a reliable warhead for ballistic missiles—small, light, and robust enough to tolerate the extreme conditions encountered through a ballistic trajectory. Learning more about what is needed for miniaturization of warheads for ballistic missiles could have been the goal of North Korea’s testing a smaller nuclear device.
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http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/nuke/RL34256.pdf

the other thing we need to watch with DPRK is that they are known to proliferate / sell their technology.

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Abyss


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Date: Feb 20, 2011
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soccerguy315 wrote:

don't they already have deliverable nuclear weapons? they have nukes, and they have missiles (taepodong 2)


It is not the US's decision how many South Korean lives that the South Korean government is willing to give up.  Yes, they lost a few... but if nuclear war broke out on the Korean peninsula, obviously they would lose substantially more.


-- Edited by soccerguy315 on Sunday 20th of February 2011 08:38:47 PM

 


Doubtful the nukes fit on the missiles.

 



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soccerguy315


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Date: Feb 20, 2011
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don't they already have deliverable nuclear weapons? they have nukes, and they have missiles (taepodong 2)

It is not the US's decision how many South Korean lives that the South Korean government is willing to give up.  Yes, they lost a few... but if nuclear war broke out on the Korean peninsula, obviously they would lose substantially more.

Prior to WWII, Hitler expanded and expanded... DPRK is not expanding anywhere.

Also, the US cannot fight on the Korean peninsula right now... a number of our troops are occupied in Iraq and Afghanistan (we don't even have enough to fight both of those simultaneously).

-- Edited by soccerguy315 on Sunday 20th of February 2011 08:41:28 PM

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BigG


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Date: Feb 20, 2011
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I think we should do something BEFORE they have a deliverable nuclear weapon.

We are certainly going to wish we had.

Our problem is that no one thinks we will use nukes again.

North Korea would be an appropriate place to demonstrate otherwise.

North Korea has already "drawn blood". Again, how many South Koreans can they kill before there are any consequences? 300, 608, 1257, 2752 (the World Trade Center total), more, less....

Give me a number of "acceptable" murders by a narcissistic madman.

"Peace in our time" lead to a devastating world war and the Holocaust.

Are we repeating the errors that lead to WW II?

We want peace and will pay any price for peace.

Yeah. That is the thinking that made the US a great country.

-- Edited by BigG on Sunday 20th of February 2011 08:34:32 PM

-- Edited by BigG on Sunday 20th of February 2011 08:35:42 PM

-- Edited by BigG on Sunday 20th of February 2011 08:38:08 PM

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soccerguy315


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Date: Feb 20, 2011
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so... you think the US should just randomly start a nuclear war that will guarantee that a DPRK nuke lands on Seoul, resulting in hundreds of thousands of lives lost in the first couple days, including 30,000+ US troops in the DMZ?

really?

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Abyss


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Date: Feb 20, 2011
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Honestly, not a terrible strategy. We could win that country over with virtual *pennies*. A country so poor, but with lots of potential.

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BigG


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Date: Feb 20, 2011
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36076191/ns/world_news-asiapacific

How many South Koreans can they kill before there is meaningful retailation?

Have we been so castrated by our indebtedness to China that we cannot act?

I say we demonstrate real nukes on selected targets in North Korea. Why utilize "boots on the ground" against barbaric primitives with no valuable natural resources in their territory?

Just kill them.  

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