Political & Elections

Abyss · Senior Member

RE: Andrew Sullivan's "Obama to the Obama Generation: Screw You, Suckers"

john doe · Guru

He'll have his experience from his first term when he is in his second.

Hindoo · Senior Member

I wouldn't take any bets on that, Italianmomma!

ItalianMomma · Veteran Member

History will surely label Obama as a mediocre president.

With no executive and management experience, it would be difficult, if not impossible, for anyone to be an effective modern president.

Hindoo · Senior Member

Abyss: He's mediocre in your opinion. Certainly not mine.

FarmDad · Veteran Member

Poetsheart wrote:
Now name the Republican nominee willing to commit political suicide by telling the American people he's going to cut Medicare and SS and/or increase taxes. Just one name will do. Thanks.

Governor Christie of New Jersey. Except he says he's not running... yet.

Abyss · Senior Member

Poetsheart wrote:

Quoting Payne:I can't find your point./Quote

Try to keep up. The point is, nobody in Washington with anything to lose is willing to go there. Democrat, Republican, it matters not. They all have feet of clay. But what's more demoralizing is the fact that the majority of Americans have the same anatomical defect. Most of us won't wake up and smell the coffee. Most of us are unwilling to sacrifice or suffer any pain, which is why we won't vote for anyone brave enough to serve it up straight. So talking as if Obama is so much worse than his colleagues is, well, just partisan bull ****e.

Did you even read Sullivan's article? It's about how good leaders are supposed to be able to make these decisions (and I agree). If Hindoo is content to support a mediocre leader that's her perogative.

I've consistently said that I think mixed government tends to get out best policies (not exactly what one would describe as especially partisan towards Republicans).

However, certain members like Ron Paul certainly fit your bill.

-- Edited by Abyss on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 10:11:06 PM

busdriver11 · Guru

Correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will), but I don't think you can say nobody is willing to go there. Just to name one, Paul Ryan of the Fiscal Responsibility and Reform Commision (whose report was completely ignored by the President, who commissioned it in the first place). And several Republican governors, against the angst of the unions, seem willing to go there.

Poetsheart · Senior Member

Quoting Payne:I can't find your point./Quote

Try to keep up. The point is, nobody in Washington with anything to lose is willing to go there. Democrat, Republican, it matters not. They all have feet of clay. But what's more demoralizing is the fact that the majority of Americans have the same anatomical defect. Most of us won't wake up and smell the coffee. Most of us are unwilling to sacrifice or suffer any pain, which is why we won't vote for anyone brave enough to serve it up straight. So talking as if Obama is so much worse than his colleagues is, well, just partisan bull ****e.

Abyss · Senior Member

Poetsheart wrote:

Quoting Payne:The single greatest problem in the US is Defense/Medicare/SS spending. He's done nothing to reform that (either by increasing taxes or decreasing spending). It's simply basic math./Quote

True, true. Now name the Republican nominee willing to commit political suicide by telling the American people he's going to cut Medicare and SS and/or increase taxes. Just one name will do. Thanks.

-- Edited by Poetsheart on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 08:29:50 PM

I can't find your point.

Poetsheart · Senior Member

Quoting Payne:The single greatest problem in the US is Defense/Medicare/SS spending. He's done nothing to reform that (either by increasing taxes or decreasing spending). It's simply basic math./Quote

True, true. Now name the Republican nominee willing to commit political suicide by telling the American people he's going to cut Medicare and SS and/or increase taxes. Just one name will do. Thanks.

-- Edited by Poetsheart on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 08:29:50 PM

Abyss · Senior Member

Hindoo wrote:

I must be missing something. I disagree with Obama quite often, but when all is said and done, I wake up every morning ... extremely grateful that he's our President.

The single greatest problem in the US is Defense/Medicare/SS spending. He's done nothing to reform that (either by increasing taxes or decreasing spending). It's simply basic math.

Hindoo · Senior Member

I must be missing something. I disagree with Obama quite often, but when all is said and done, I wake up every morning ... extremely grateful that he's our President.

ItalianMomma · Veteran Member

"They have to lead, because this president is too weak, too cautious, too beholden to politics over policy to lead. In this budget, in his refusal to do anything concrete to tackle the looming entitlement debt, in his failure to address the generational injustice, in his blithe indifference to the increasing danger of default, he has betrayed those of us who took him to be a serious president prepared to put the good of the country before his short term political interests. Like his State of the Union, this budget is good short term politics but such a massive pile of fiscal bull**** it makes it perfectly clear that Obama is kicking this vital issue down the road.

To all those under 30 who worked so hard to get this man elected, know this: he just screwed you over. He thinks you're fools. Either the US will go into default because of Obama's cowardice, or you will be paying far far more for far far less because this president has no courage when it counts. He let you down. On the critical issue of America's fiscal crisis, he represents no hope and no change. Just the same old Washington politics he once promised to end."

I don't know why anyone's surprised. Obama was totally unqualified for the job. He'd never really done anything before...no management experience at all. Just a good speaker....with a TelePrompTer.

-- Edited by ItalianMomma on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 04:20:53 PM

-- Edited by ItalianMomma on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 04:23:33 PM

BigG · Guru

Instead of a huge 2000 page piece of crap the Democrats could have passed a series of smaller bills designed to focus attention on legislators who were "in the pockets" of insurance companies. Of course that includes a lot of Democrats as well as Republicans.

Or how about simple timely enforcement of existing contract law?

Insurance companies cheat by delaying and denying legitimate claims.

Of course we are getting similar doctrinaire BS from the Republican House.
Why are Germany and even France better at protecting their citizens jobs?

Perhaps because their governments at least tries to do so.

News flash for "conservatives". THERE IS NO FREE MARKET. It is one with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. There are only real markets which are being manipulated by China and other soverign entities pursueing their national agendas.

"Small government" cannot possibly hope to win against that.

-- Edited by BigG on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 04:01:29 PM

Abyss · Senior Member

Jordcin wrote:

BigG, what is Obama supposed to do when about half of congress will block anything he tries to do? Don't you think his only choices have been to compromise? He can't pass laws on his own. There is too much pure hatred on the other side for him to ever be successful.

I think quite a few Republicans would go along with Obama if he attempted real reform (ie: a reduction in spending) of SS/Medicare/Defense.

Razorsharp · Guru

I am hoping the other half of congress will try to block Obama's continued reckless spending. I can give you a trillion reasons why Obama is the cause of this mess.

Jordcin · Veteran Member

BigG, what is Obama supposed to do when about half of congress will block anything he tries to do? Don't you think his only choices have been to compromise? He can't pass laws on his own. There is too much pure hatred on the other side for him to ever be successful.

BigG · Guru

President O. is just a politician and a failed one at that. He is responsible for wasteing the stimulus money and continuing the Bush policies of saving banks and Wall Street at the expense of the rest of society.

I have a few proposals, most of which you have heard before;

Monetize the debt. Throw the "international monetary system" "under the bus". The US wouldn't be able to borrow money again and that would be a good thing. Why does a centuries old country or a century old corporation need to borrow? If the cash flow never becomes self sustaining, the enterprise is not successful.

Leave Iraq and Afghanistan. Spend some of that money on coal liquification and high tech weapon development.

Implement tort reform, phased in to give lawyers time to move into other fields.
.
Train more physicians. Allow "physician's assistants" and "nurse practicioners" to conduct their own practices.

The fact is that we can not afford to do things the way we have traditionally done things. We spend too much and get too little on everything from defense to medical care to legal services.

But the lobbists, who OWN the government absolutely totally and completely, work for folks with a vested interest in the "way things are".

With 26%+ under- and unemployment and tens of thousands of people being evicted by "institutions" who were saved by government intervention, why aren't Americans rioting in the streets?

-- Edited by BigG on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 06:17:37 AM

Woodwork · Senior Member

Bogney wrote:

The majority of twenty somethings don't pay enough attention to mundane politics and economics to understand what is happening, so they have little political power.

Something I remain particularly grateful for. It is also one of the reasons I am not cheerful about the prospect of a true democracy offering itself up to the young malcontents in places like Egypt, Yemen or Iran.

As for that sexual miscreant, Andrew Sullivan, --nay, "Milky Loads"-- it is a latent sign of maturing that his writing is no longer obsessed with Sarah Palin's vagina. I figure --after the first infatuating blush of Obama, now 2 years out-- Mr Loads through an intervention has been sent to journalistic rehab, perhaps a 12 step program --it does seem that he has found the ideal tee totaling sponsor in David Brooks...a sober pundit not known to obsess over the genitals of the politicians he paws at.

Now, off the bottle, Milky Loads Sullivan has developed a real flair for the obvious, good on him.

-- Edited by Woodwork on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 05:34:20 AM

Abyss · Senior Member

Bogney wrote:

The benefits for the young will be completely gutted while the old take whatever remains to be taken.

Once again, a liberal doesn't understand what 'solvency' is.

Bogney · Senior Member

The benefits for the young will be completely gutted while the old take whatever remains to be taken.

Abyss · Senior Member

Bogney wrote:

The majority of twenty somethings don't pay enough attention to mundane politics and economics to understand what is happening, so they have little political power.

I wouldn't be worried if I was a 20-something. I'd be worried if I was old and needed social services. If the debt burden becomes too great services will simply start being cut (or we get a govt default, and I doubt that benefits the older generation with their savings in T-Bills/Notes).

-- Edited by Abyss on Monday 14th of February 2011 09:37:56 PM

Bogney · Senior Member

The majority of twenty somethings don't pay enough attention to mundane politics and economics to understand what is happening, so they have little political power.

Abyss · Senior Member

Razorsharp wrote:

Sullivan finally gets something right. I am impressed.

If I were a 20 something, I would be in the streets protesting the debts the current generation of leaders was sticking to me to pay.

I'm far more mercenary than that. I'll just leave the country.

soccerguy315 · Guru

it's ridiculous, honestly. No politicians will tackle this issue because the consequences are long term gain for short term sacrifice. Short term sacrifice gets you kicked out of office. $100 billion is chump change. The budget deficit is somewhere in the range of $1.5 trillion (I think). Cutting $100 billion of that will do nothing.

It needs to start with something straight up, like 5% across the board. Yes, it's going to suck, but it has to be done. Medicare and Social Security ages need to be raise, gradually over time (ie, if you are in your 50s now, add 2 years to your collection date, 40s add 4 years, 30s add 6 years, 20s add 8 years.

the debt will always be a "long term issue"... until it is too late.

Here's any NYTimes graphic of the budget: http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html/newsgraphics/2011/0119-budget/index.html

none of this is Obama's fault, but someone is going to have to be the guy who steps up and says enough is enough. The suits in DC can only punt this issue down the line for so long before it will implode. Christie is stepping up to the plate in NJ.

-- Edited by soccerguy315 on Monday 14th of February 2011 08:11:31 PM

Razorsharp · Guru

Sullivan finally gets something right. I am impressed.

If I were a 20 something, I would be in the streets protesting the debts the current generation of leaders was sticking to me to pay.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/02/obama-to-the-obama-generation-youre-on-your-own.html

I can't seem to quote this entire article. Spend the two minutes reading it at the link.