"Like his earlier article on the treatment of religion by academic psychologists and the New Atheists, Haidt's address on the leftist bias of the social psychology profession was reproduced on the www.edge.org website where various colleagues were asked to respond. Some of the responses did more than Haidt could ever have done to confirm his claim that a tribal or cult-like insularity and conformity informs many in the social psychology profession. One distinguished psychologist, a Harvard professor, suggested that the near monopoly of people on the left among social psychologists might simply reflect the fact, not that there are barriers to entry for conservatives, but that "liberals may be more interested in new ideas, more willing to work for peanuts, or just more intelligent, all of which may push them to pursue the academic life while deterring their conservative peers." Another professor from NYU suggested that the fact that so many ordinary Americans are conservative but almost all social psychologists are liberal may simply reflect the greater knowledge and expertise of the latter. "We should ask honestly," he wrote, "whether social scientists are too liberal or society is too conservative." "After all," he went on to explain, "when experts and laypersons disagree, we do not usually rush to the conclusion that the experts are biased."
Not all of the responses to Haidt's address were hostile, however -- or ideologically self-serving. Lee Jussim, for instance, the chairman of Rutgers psychology department, had this to say: "I cannot sufficiently express my gratitude to, and enthusiasm for, Jon Haidt's speech. As he so refreshingly pointed out, liberal bias infects, distorts, and undermines the quality of our science. … If [Haidt's speech] leads even one researcher to be more sensitive to the extraordinary double standards and blindness that sometimes taint our field, it will have been a rousing success."
Another supporter of Haidt's speech was Paul Bloom, professor of psychology at Yale. To get across Haidt's central idea of a hostile work environment confronting non-conformists, Bloom asked his fellow psychologists to imagine the following scenario:
Imagine that you are a beginning graduate student accepted into a top-ranked psychology department. The first colloquium talk you go to is about deception, from a famous social psychologist. In the middle of her talk, she makes a remark about how some people are simply incapable of ever telling the truth, and then she puts up a large picture of Barack Obama. People roar with laughter, and there's a bit of applause. You are a teaching fellow in a large Introduction to Psychology course, and the professor talks a bit about popular delusions, giving the example of liberals who believe in global warming. Al Gore is mentioned in a lecture on clinical psychology, in the context of narcissistic personality disorder. Everyone you know is a conservative Republican and assumes that you are one too, making off-hand jokes to you about brain-dead liberals. But suppose you are, in fact, a liberal yourself. How would you feel about this new life you have chosen?
Bloom then went on to state the obvious: "Nobody wants to be part of a community where their identity is the target of ridicule and malice." This, he said, is obvious to social psychologists in dealing with all sorts of other biases involving gender, race, and sexual orientation. It should be obvious, too, he said, for biases against those who hold political views outside the left-liberal mainstream. For a community that proclaims the value of diversity, Bloom said, we should be much more sensitive to these issues of political bias. "Jon is right that we should do better."
__________________
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” – Mark Twain
I was more referring to his courage, in breaking with the party line, more than the actual position, which is what everybody really thinks about the radical jihadists, anyway. But, somehow, we have gotten to a point of potato/potato, tomato/tomato, in politics, these days, so that we can't all even agree on what makes sense. At least Maher is saying it.
You can take as intelligent a person as you'd like; they're not going to know any more (or less) about what leads to a peaceful prosperous society than anyone else. That's why liberals can tend to be intelligent IQ wise, but still absolutely dead wrong on just about everything when it comes to political philosophy. Good political reasoning is much more about consistency, honesty, abstract reasoning, absence of ego, and a knowledge of self (among other attributes). I see a lot more "geniuses" than people who possess these qualities.
The point is that the field of academic social psychiatry actively discriminates against non-liberals and as a result the science suffers and the credibility of the discipline is at risk.
Very true. And this would be a problem in any health-related field...mental or physical.
the problem is that if there ever was some positive evidence about something that is contrary to the current liberal point of view, the evidence/future research would get squashed.
For instance, if there were any evidence that showed young girls were becoming more violent because of participation in more aggressive team sports" (like soccer), I think that evidence would be squashed and further research would get discouraged. **I'm just putting this forth as an example, so don't get upset.
As it is, many on the left get upset when negative issues are linked to father-less homes. So, when a profession that deals with these issues is extremely dominated by the left, you're not going to see the research/reports that really expose the risks involved.
-- Edited by ItalianMomma on Thursday 17th of March 2011 08:38:34 PM
That's why arguing about who is "more dangerous" really misses the point. If we only watch out for one type of killer, we'll miss all the others.
I don't think it does, not if you take into account criteria such as which type of killer is: more numerous (in absolute numbers, not percentages), whch has the best funding, the most sympathizers (redundant, but that is the problem, isn't it?), best current succes rate, etc.
The only reason to treat one and all the same is a reluctance to admit the diverstiy/inclusion themes not only aren't working but aren't going to.
Has anyone figured out how to identify a "Radical" anyone, if one does, what do you do about it with the laws of our society? Let's say we had looked at Nidal Hasan before he had done anything incriminating - what exactly could have been done?
Our problem lies in the way our rules have been formulated - if an organization chooses to disguise its fighters as civilians who are willing to personally give up everything, we go out of our way to extend these people rights that they can use to their advantage. This has not hurt the US for the most part with other religions because other than in a few cases (attacks on abortion clinic comes to mind), there has not been organized attempts to attack civilians. In the military theatre, if tens of thousand people out of a country of tens of million declare war, we are willing to acknowledge that we are at war with that country and attack them even if the overwhelming majority of them don't have any interest in hurting us. Nobody raises the argument of "only 1 in thousands is trying to hurt us". The same does not apply in this engagement because the enemy has chosen not to be overt.
I disagree that Honor killings, burqas, marriage to 8-year olds, etc. are not 21st century ideals - they are not the ideals of most of those in *this* society, but clearly they have a vast following in other societies. If we welcome these people to our society, a portion of them will continue to hold those views and try to propagate it, and it's naive to assume otherwise.
Oh, I don't disagree with you. I do, however, as a woman, disagree with the faction of the left who continually defends muslim anti-woman practices as "cultural" differences....... or "religious" freedoms.
I mean, honestly, if there were a religion that still practiced slavery, would we defend this as a cultural "difference?" I don't think so.
But, it is what it is. It is one of those examples of if one political party takes one postion, the other takes the opposite, even if it doesn't make any sense, just to be "on the other side."
Thank you, poetgrl. I read the article. I can't speak for other Democrats, so I have no idea why they are not commenting. If I had to guess, I'd guess it has nothing to do with the fact that it's not "party line" (whatever that means for Democrats), but a lot to do with the fact that it's just typical of Maher's previously expressed hatred of all religious faiths. He's always against any religion, and people tend to comment on news, not non-news.
For myself, I agree that radicalized Muslims are the greatest single threat to our country right now. But they're not by any means the only threat - any crazed person can be a great threat.
We are a country of congregation - big buildings, big shopping centers, big political rallies, big transportation. It only takes one person to hurt many. The racist who tried to bomb the MLK parade in the PNW could have killed many people if he'd succeeded, and the families of those people would have been just as sad as the victims of Atta and his like.
That's why arguing about who is "more dangerous" really misses the point. If we only watch out for one type of killer, we'll miss all the others.
I tried to find as politically unbiaseda a "source" as possible, which is why this from a business publication. To see other views, google, Bill Maher, muslims.
And what the evidence for your saying that people on the left aren't saying anything because it's not the party line? Or is that just your supposition?
I was more referring to his courage, in breaking with the party line, more than the actual position, which is what everybody really thinks about the radical jihadists, anyway. But, somehow, we have gotten to a point of potato/potato, tomato/tomato, in politics, these days, so that we can't all even agree on what makes sense. At least Maher is saying it.
Along these same lines, though, has anybody noticed that Bill Maher is being completely honest about his feelings about radical islamists and nobody has any idea of how to figure out what to say about it? The people on the left don't know what to say because it's not the "party line," and the people on the right are all "whiny" about the fact he's not being attacked by the left.
The people on the right should just applaud him for being willing to speak, even if it's not right out of somebody else's play book, imho.
Maher has one position right, hardly worthy of applause.
What's the point? Different fields attract different folks. Nothing more, nothing less. Move along. The point is that the field of academic social psychiatry actively discriminates against non-liberals and as a result the science suffers and the credibility of the discipline is at risk.
It’s all spelled out quite elegantly just one click away with the link I provided (again, here: http://people.virginia.edu/~jdh6n/postpartisan.html )
Here’s just some of what he says…..
On whether there is discrimination in the field:
C) Is there any evidence of discrimination against non-liberals in academe, beyond the numerical disparities? Yes. I suggest thinking about the question in three steps:
1) It's likely in theory. From everything we know about group dynamics and motivated reasoning, we should expect people to use different standards when evaluating members of a disliked minority outgroup, while believing that they are being fair minded. People find evidence for whatever conclusion they want to reach (see Haidt, 2001), so reviewers can easily find reasons to reject manuscripts or grant proposals or job candidates that they don't like (see Mahoney, 1977).
2) Biased evaluations of non-liberal research have been demonstrated experimentally: --Abramowitz, Gomes, & Abramowitz (1975) asked liberal and non-liberal research psychologists to rate the suitability of a manuscript for publication. The manuscript purported to demonstrate that a group of leftist political activists were mentally healthier, or unhealthier, than a comparison group of campus non-activists. When the activists were said to be healthier, liberal reviewers rated the manuscript as more publishable. They even rated the statistical analyses as being more adequate.
--Ceci, Peters, & Plotkin (1985), submitted research proposals to 150 Internal Review Boards (the boards that approve the ethics of each study done at a university). Proposals to investigate "reverse discrimination" were approved only half as often as otherwise identical proposals to investigate discrimination.
--Munro, Lasane, & Leary (2010), found that when judging college admissions folders, partisans weighed more heavily whichever feature (grades or recommendations) let them select the applicant who shared their ideology. (Everyone can find a reason to justify their own biased actions.)
3) Controlling for productivity, conservatives fare worse in hiring. The most direct possible evidence of ideological discrimination would be a demonstration that conservative academics are "underemployed" relative to their qualifications. The only study that has looked for such an effect found it: Rothman, Lichter, and Nevitte (2005) analyzed surveys of the professoriate from the 1960s through the 2000s, and reached two important conclusions:
A) The ideological imbalance was not bad until the mid 1980s [which shows that there is nothing eternal about liberal pre-eminence in academe] but academe became much more liberal after that. The authors conclude: "In conjunction with other recent studies, our findings suggest strongly that a leftward shift has occurred on college campuses in recent years, to the extent that political conservatives have become an endangered species in some departments." Their data shows that English, performing arts, psychology, fine arts, and religion departments now have the highest percentages of liberals.
B) A regression analysis using research productivity, political attitudes, and a host of demographic variables to predict the prestige of the university that employed each professor found that by far the best predictor of prestige is research productivity (i.e., academe is largely a meritocracy). But the second best predictor was political attitudes (being a conservative reduced one's prospects), followed by being female or a religious Christian (both reduced one's prospects). Being Black, gay, or married made no difference. The authors conclude: "multivariate analysis of the available data show that even after taking into account the effects of academic achievement, along with many other individual characteristics, conservatives and Republicans taught at lower quality schools than did liberals and Democrats."
For those who continue to assert that there is no discrimination, and no evidence of discrimination, I ask you: What would it take to convince you? What kind of evidence would change your mind?
On the effect of the discrimination:
I really want to emphasize today is that it is a scientific issue. We are hurting ourselves when we deprive ourselves of critics, of people who are as committed to science as we are, but who ask different questions, and make different background assumptions. The problem is rather that the sum total of research on a topic does not address the full range of questions that would be asked, and psychological mechanisms that would be investigated, if our field contained more ideological diversity. we are a tribal moral community. ... we have sacred values other than truth, we have taboos that constrain our thinking; we have almost no moral/political diversity; and we have created a hostile climate for graduate students who don't share those sacred values.
On the potential benefits of eliminating the discrimination:
I think the benefits to our field and our science will be enormous. One obvious benefit of post-partisan social psychology will be more credibility in Washington and with the general public. It will be easier to claim that psychology should be treated and funded like the hard sciences if legislators in both parties feel they can trust our research.
A second benefit of post-partisan social psychology will be rapid progress on new topics. When women flooded into the social sciences in the 1970s, they often investigated topics that had been overlooked by men. They found different topics interesting. Just think of Shelly Taylor's work on the "tend and befriend" hypothesis. If we can welcome a few hundred conservatives in the next decade, I can guarantee that they'll pick bushels of low-hanging fruit that the rest of us missed.
But the most important benefit we'll get from shutting off the magnet will be better science and freer thinking. We'll escape from some ruts we are currently stuck in.
He offers these recommendations:
Here are 3 things you can do to make that happen.
First, be careful about "locker room" talk. Be careful when there are students around about creating a hostile climate. Don't say things like "I'm a good liberal democrat, just like every other social psychologist I know."
Second, expose yourself to other perspectives. I have a project along with Ravi Iyer and Matt Motyl, at CivilPolitics.org, where we bring together materials to help people understand the other side. I also suggest that you read a book by Thomas Sowell, A Conflict of Visions. And consider subscribing to National Review. I read about 8 magazines every month. Seven of them lean left. I get more new ideas from reading National Review than from any of the others.
Third, advocate for moral diversity, in admissions and hiring. It may perhaps be possible to shut off our magnet without finding any actual conservatives. But I think we should take our own rhetoric about the benefits of diversity seriously, and apply it to ourselves. I think we should make it a priority to find, nurture, and welcome a few dozen conservatives into our ranks. We are the world's experts in this sort of challenge. We know how to do this.
__________________
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” – Mark Twain
Along these same lines, though, has anybody noticed that Bill Maher is being completely honest about his feelings about radical islamists and nobody has any idea of how to figure out what to say about it? The people on the left don't know what to say because it's not the "party line," and the people on the right are all "whiny" about the fact he's not being attacked by the left.
The people on the right should just applaud him for being willing to speak, even if it's not right out of somebody else's play book, imho.
I was born in an artist's commune and even I didn't need a social scientist to tell me there was a bias at the Times, or a bias at the WSJ, or even in this post.
Can you guess the bias in this quote?
-- Edited by poetgrl on Monday 14th of March 2011 05:57:57 PM
a great many of whom don't believe in psychology as a discipline in the first place -- went into that profession?
I know a lot of conservatives. I have never heard one say psychology is not a discipline. There is no merit to your comment about what a "great many" conservatives think about psychology as a discipline.
The author of the original presentation dedicated a page of his web site to the responses to it, here: http://people.virginia.edu/~jdh6n/postpartisan.html
Below is an excerpt, but I recommend going to the author's web page where he provides links to the articles he refers to:
One of the most interesting aspects of the controversy has been the vitriol shown in the comments on blog posts about my talk. Many comments basically say: "There's no discrimination against conservatives, and those stupid, narrow-minded creationists could never be scientists anyway."
James Taranto, at the Wall St. Journal, analyzed the most-recommended comments on Tierney's NYT article and found the reasoning to be just the sort of blatant and nasty stereotyping (of conservatives) that is so roundly comdemned when applied to any other group. (Click here, then scroll down one screen to "Newspaper as echo chamber".)
Megan McArdle, at The Atlantic, wrote a balanced blog post on the controversy: Unbiasing Academia. But she was shocked by the vehemence of many liberal commenters on that post. She then wrote a second post (What Does Bias Look Like?) in which she takes these commenters to task. This is a deep and nuanced examination of the nature of biased thinking. For example, she notes that many of the commenters select the narrowest possible definition of bias, use it to acquit their side of bias, and then go on to blame the victims of the bias for deserving the bias. She notes that this is the same rhetorical strategy normally used to deny and then justify racism. As she puts it: "So while in theory, it's true that you can't simply reason from disparity to bias, I have to say that when you've identified a statistical disparity, and the members of the in-group immediately rush to assure you that this isn't because of bias, but because the people they've excluded are all a bunch of raging *******s with lukewarm IQ's . . . well, I confess, discrimination starts sounding pretty plausible."
__________________
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” – Mark Twain
You lost me with your comment about "identity issues." I honestly have no idea what you're driving at.
Who am I? How do I work it out? Why do I feel like I do? ...all the “why” questions. It’s a “me” thing and it is common to all, I suppose, in varying degrees; especially common to youth (high school/college) and no one will ever completely avoid it. But then there are those that in the passionate throes of a college education will inevitably flip their deepest self-doubt and navel gazing into their field of study and professional livelihood.
Once, not so long ago, these lost souls found their lives’ moments searching for god within the tinted glass and accumulated traditions of the church or synagogue …now, it is the mere search for a disoriented self surrounded by the institutional grays of the academy and professional office complexes along the boulevard.
The latter fellows, it seems, tend to be of a liberal disposition.
The news here is that it would be news to anyone that a large proportion of those attracted to the practice of psychology had identity issues and that those with identity issues (as identity is traditionally a normative definition) would largely tend to be liberals. It is analogous to being shocked to find that people that want to be priests, nuns, rabbis or imams tend to be people of faith with a large regard for tradition.
Otoh, the culture and politics would logically color the "findings" and studies of the profession in question....whether the priesthood or the American Psychological Association. Especially the priesthood or APA: conclusions looking for the appropriate questions.
Well, at least one person in this cultural casino is shocked, or at least giving a wink and a nod all the fidgety guys and gals with their hands on the scales.
[video=]
-- Edited by Woodwork on Thursday 10th of February 2011 05:22:14 AM
Presumably he's suggesting that it would be impossible to get that "mix" if you chose people at random for that occupation. Which obviously doesn't happen.
And what does he think would be the benefit if more conservatives -- a great many of whom don't believe in psychology as a discipline in the first place -- went into that profession? It would be OK again to tell gay and lesbian people that they're sick perverts?
I don't think that that mix of political philosophies is optimal in knowledge generation. In fact, I'm not even sure that's an arguable statement.
And what does he think would be the benefit if more conservatives -- a great many of whom don't believe in psychology as a discipline in the first place -- went into that profession? It would be OK again to tell gay and lesbian people that they're sick perverts?
He polled his audience at the San Antonio Convention Center, starting by asking how many considered themselves politically liberal. A sea of hands appeared, and Dr. Haidt estimated that liberals made up 80 percent of the 1,000 psychologists in the ballroom. When he asked for centrists and libertarians, he spotted fewer than three dozen hands. And then, when he asked for conservatives, he counted a grand total of three.
“This is a statistically impossible lack of diversity,” Dr. Haidt concluded, noting polls showing that 40 percent of Americans are conservative and 20 percent are liberal. In his speech and in an interview, Dr. Haidt argued that social psychologists are a “tribal-moral community” united by “sacred values” that hinder research and damage their credibility — and blind them to the hostile climate they’ve created for non-liberals.
“Anywhere in the world that social psychologists see women or minorities underrepresented by a factor of two or three, our minds jump to discrimination as the explanation,” said Dr. Haidt, who called himself a longtime liberal turned centrist. “But when we find out that conservatives are underrepresented among us by a factor of more than 100, suddenly everyone finds it quite easy to generate alternate explanations.”