Political & Elections

Cardinal Fang · Senior Member

RE: Why a lot of feminists are pretty much "done" with Michael Moore and Keith Olbermann

busdriver11 · Guru

Ha! Well, you should be ashamed, that guy is a serious blowhard douchebag if I've ever seen one.

Nice hair, though.

Cartera · Guru

Yes, she needs to learn editing skills. I didn't have the patience to read the full blog post. Not ashamed to admit I'm a big Keith fan though.

-- Edited by Cartera on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 10:21:04 PM

busdriver11 · Guru

"Raping someone while she's asleep-- yeah, that's rape. You'd damn well think it was rape if you were the one being attacked."

Here's the problem, though. If they knew each other intimately, already had sex, and later on that night, he'd decided to get more....little bit different than a stranger breaking into your room and raping you in your bed. Creepy, rude, borish and disgusting, but how are you going to actually prove it? He said/she said. Unknown attacker, obvious rape. Boyfriend/prior sexual acquaintance....absent of injuries, how do you prove it?

busdriver11 · Guru

Kind of funny that now Assange is furious that people are publishing the details of the rape accusations in the press. Apparently everything about him should be kept a secret, yet everything else--secret, private negotiations, war strategies, should be published for all to see. I love that he is getting a taste of his own medicine.

Though as far as the rape charges go....he seems like such a wimpy guy that it can be hard to believe that he could force a woman to do anything without a weapon. Problem is, if you've already slept with them and later on they try to take advantage while you're sleeping, it may be hard to classify it as rape. Perhaps there is another classification? Maybe extreme jerkiness, total lowlife?

The accusation of rape covers a very wide spectrum. I know one woman who was embarrassed and regretted having sex with a man, later claiming that he had raped her (though didn't report it to the police). And I know that was complete BS, because I was IN THE ROOM, embarrassed by the entire situation and pretending I was asleep. They were as quiet as can be, but come on, how rude. Gee, that was the quietest "rape" I could imagine.
On the other side of the spectrum, a friend's cousin was raped at knifepoint by a violent man who broke into her home. She actually threw herself through the living room window, cutting herself badly, in order to save her life. How does one classify these both as the same acts?

Cardinal Fang · Senior Member

Raping someone while she's asleep-- yeah, that's rape. You'd damn well think it was rape if you were the one being attacked.

soccerguy315 · Guru

Michael Moore and Keith Olbermann are both idiots.

DonnaL · Senior Member

It's not the "equivalent," but, if the allegations are true, it's still sexual assault -- sex without consent.

BigG · Guru

So what Assange did is tantamount to a stranger forcing sex at knife or gun point?

Jordcin · Veteran Member

DonnaL wrote:

If he ever returns to Sweden, he will be charged with rape.

The specific allegations are summarized at http://jezebel.com/5714905/read-the-full-sex-crime-allegations-against-julian-assange

Ok, now I understand the reason condom was mentioned so much. I don't understand the rape charge though.

Cardinal Fang · Senior Member

When someone says, as Olbermann is alleged to have said, that in Sweden, consensual sex without a condom is rape, one has to wonder where they think Swedish babies come from.

Olbermann is a blowhard who loves the sound of his own voice, but Sady Doyle could use an editor too. I tried to read her blog post, but it kept going on, and on, and on, whining and complaining. I was trying to figure out what the issue was, but it got buried under an avalanche of her verbiage.

If Assange did what either of the two things he is alleged to have done-- had sex with one woman in her sleep, and in another sexual encounter with a different woman held her down so she couldn't reach a condom when she wanted to-- he is a despicable rapist and I hope he is convicted.

DonnaL · Senior Member

If he ever returns to Sweden, he will be charged with rape.

The specific allegations are summarized at http://jezebel.com/5714905/read-the-full-sex-crime-allegations-against-julian-assange

These are not just allegations that "a condom broke," or that "it's against the law in Sweden to have sex without a condom," as a lot of his defenders have claimed.

See also his interview with the BBC, summarized at http://jezebel.com/5715624/assange-ive-never-had-a-problem-before-with-women?skyline=true&s=i

Jordcin · Veteran Member

I haven't really been following this story, but the beginning coverage was a bit weird. They were talking about it was rape because of the condom issue? It never really made sense. Why didn't they just charge him with rape?

Razorsharp · Guru

It seems to me that this confusion is why we have trials and this is why people should hold judgment until the trial is completed. It could be the case that Assange raped two women or it could be a two case of false allegations. All I know is that I don't know what happened in this case.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

I can't believe this. It actually makes me feel physically sick to hear some of the comments towards the end of the article.

Wow. Just wow.

I have known too many women sexually assaulted, either through date rape or violent stranger rape. It's a horrible thing that a woman would have to endure, and to mock or minimize the life-long impact of this crime on a woman is just unbelievably low.

Too many women refuse to report the crime and one of those reasons is that they don't want to be victimized a second time by the legal system.

He ought to be ashamed, but I doubt he even gets that. Too bad.

DonnaL · Senior Member

To put it as briefly as possible: Rape apology. Lying, and/or refusing to retract clear misstatements of fact. All in the interest of discrediting the accusers of Julian Assange.

If you're interested in the details, read the last few posts on the subject at Tigerbeatdown, the blog of Sady Doyle, a young feminist who's a friend of a friend, whom I've met once, and who I think is really smart.

http://tigerbeatdown.com/

Personally, I never liked either of them much.

And I realized 40 years ago that being a left-wing, "progressive" man doesn't mean that you take women, or women's concerns, seriously.

-- Edited by DonnaL on Tuesday 21st of December 2010 11:50:58 AM