Political & Elections

jazzy · Senior Member

RE: Federally mandated street signs

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

Last year, I ran across a story that seemed impossible to believe, but it was true. It was a regulation from the Consumer Product Safety Org - about lead in children's toys. There was also a section of this regulation that said books published before 1986 for children should not be available for children due to possible lead content. The American Library Association went absolutely nuts. The blogs were on fire with protest.

The question was about compliance with this new rule...would there be library police monitoring distribution of books in a local library to children? It seemed too ridiculous to believe, but the fines were heavy for non-compliance. Who would enforce this? Before long, the lawyers told the librarians in my local library to pull all pre-1986 books published. The life span of a library book isn't always 25 or 30 years. Sometimes a book doesn't last a year, but non-fiction books can and have lasted that long, or longer. Content changes, interest in certain subjects changes, but sometimes you can have a book that hasn't circulated all that many times and it's still very useable.

Do you know how ridiculous it is to box up dozens of boxes of books to basically discard to the trash based on a regulatory whim? Especially with tight budgets? Few of the children in this particular library are chewing on the pages or the cover (which was where the lead was most worrisome).

-- Edited by SamuraiLandshark on Monday 29th of November 2010 09:08:50 PM

jazzy · Senior Member

Fact checking every story that comes out in all the various sources nowadays ---- who would have the time?

ABC should have been fact checking, should have had a little lightbulb go on that said, is this the whole story? The extent of the confusion is obviously, though, when even the local officials are under the impression that they are being mandated to do something they aren't being mandated to do.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

Jazzy,

I didn't even fact check that story, because it came from ABCnews. Thanks for clearing it up!

jazzy · Senior Member

FYI:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/traffic/mixedcase.asp

In a nutshell, the lead in for the ABC story is wrong, though by being wrong, it's a much juicier story:

It's just one reason the Federal Highway Administration is ordering all local governments -- from the tiniest towns to the largest cities -- to go out and buy new street signs that federal bureaucrats say are easier to read.

That's not what the regs say, according to snopes.

It's more along the lines that WHEN and IF a sign has to be replaced, it should be replaced using the new regs requirement. Mixed letters on street signs. Reflective materials on STOP, YIELD and other warning signs.

If ABC had reported this correctly, it would have lost it's WTF appeal and probably wouldn't have gotten any airtime at all.

BCEagle91 · Senior Member

How about just taking all of the street signs down?

poetgrl · Senior Member

therefore: threeM is a big republican donor.

romanigypsyeyes · Guru

2. why someone from the "enlightened" Obama admin hasn't squashed it?

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but what could Obama do?

I agree that it is easier to see lowercase. All uppercase is just hard for me to read. However, it should become policy that as they need to be replaced, they are replaced with the new requirements- not that they ALL need to be replaced by X date.

BigG · Guru

3M financed the study that said they were needed.
3M makes the reflective material for the lettering.
The legislation was passed during a Republican administration.

pmrlcomm · Senior Member

What I really want to know is why this was passed back during the Bush admin and 1. is just now taking effect and 2. why someone from the "enlightened" Obama admin hasn't squashed it?

Billy · Senior Member

...The hell?

I look at the streets of America, right over the starving homeless, the roads in disrepair, and the foreclosures lining them, and do you know what I say? "Man, we really need CAPS blockers on those signs over there."

poetgrl · Senior Member

Love the garmin.

We call it the gremlin. evileye

inthenews · Veteran Member

They've tried to change the old signs in our area to reflective ones with larger and more visible lettering, but the proposals have been defeated each time. The attitude seems to be if you don't know where you are , you don't belong here. I think there is no doubt that illegible road signs can sometimes contribute to hazardous conditions on the road. However, the research study that supported the extent of these conclusions was sponsored by 3M, manufacturer of a reflective sign technology, so not exactly an unbiased source.

BCEagle91 · Senior Member

Mandate Garmins for all cars, paid for in the new healthcare bill.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

I am not sure if this is true that a smaller, right size font is easier to read than a font that is larger in caps. Most of the signs in California cities are lower case fonts, but are still not going to be in compliance if the sign size is not updated to the larger 6 inch size.

The issue seems to be that when the sign developers came out with this new easy to read font, there is more spacing between letters. Would it have been easier to read the larger CAPS if there was simply more space between letters? I don't know.

I disagree that it is harder to read a poster who screams in all caps. I think it may be more annoying to read all caps for an internet poster, but that doesn't mean it is harder to read.

In terms of my watch, once I hit 40, I couldn't read anything in smallish fonts or numbers, although my distance vision is quite good. I couldn't read what I am typing on this keyboard with the font size that this website offers. I have to wear glasses. When I am driving, my vision is quite good.

I believe the reflective coating may make these signs ultimately easier for an aging population.

Clearly, we disagree. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

Cardinal Fang · Senior Member

I don't dispute that a tiny font is hard to read. But a tiny font is hard to read no matter whether the text is in all caps, or with lower case. A right-size font is harder to read in all caps.

I don't see what the watch size has to do with anything. Are you saying that your watch doesn't have lower-case numbers?

-- Edited by Cardinal Fang on Monday 29th of November 2010 02:51:02 PM

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

Actually, being someone who needs glasses to read anything that is too small of font, I find it much more difficult to read lower case. Highlighted in bold or not.

Perhaps that refutes your studies, but it is why I wear a watch the size of a small wall clock on my wrist.

Cardinal Fang · Senior Member

I don't know about the Federal requirements, but DUMB definitely is harder to read than Dumb for most people, and there are robust studies to demonstrate it. With lower case letters, the reader gets a clue from the shape of the word, but words in all caps are all rectangular.

You've probably noticed that SOME SCREAMER WHO POSTS IN ALL CAPS writes posts that are harder to read than a normal person's.

-- Edited by Cardinal Fang on Monday 29th of November 2010 02:45:27 PM

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

This policy needs to be reassessed.

It's incredibly dumb. If the signs are hard to read, making them bigger with a smaller font is going to do the trick?

DUMB is easier to read then Dumb. Even if the sign is a little bigger.

poetgrl · Senior Member

If the people driving are having trouble reading the SIGNS, why on earth do they still have a driver's license???? confuse

-- Edited by poetgrl on Monday 29th of November 2010 02:24:34 PM

jazzy · Senior Member

This is definitely the kind of government interference we don't need, stuff that should be left to state and local officials to decide based on their budgets and priorities.

I wonder who in the Bush administration was responsible for caving to the lobbyists...the report is thin on those details. hmm

"
From the link above:

The Federal Highway Administration says it's concerned about safety. The
new regulations, which were written under the Bush Administration, are
designed to make sure that signs are easier to read for an aging
population.

pmrlcomm · Senior Member

A perfect example of bloated government that is out of touch with reality. They allow the special interest groups to ramrod this crap down our throats. All copies of these regulations should be given to the homeless to burn for warmth. This is just bat-**** crazy....

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

Is your town impacted by this new regulation? Our city is facing such devastating financial hardships that I wonder if this will be the straw that breaks the proverbial back.

I actually think that caps are easier to read...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/local-governments-told-buy-street-signs/story?id=12256322

-- Edited by SamuraiLandshark on Monday 29th of November 2010 02:36:55 PM