I wasn't aware of the reorganization. I guess I'll need to find a chart of who does what one of these days.
> If the government provides trademark protection should the government be > allowed to dictate price? Is there a special tax paid by these companies or is > trademark protection paid for from general funds? In tough budget times > what is the value of trademark protection to the general public?
Those fake tennis racquets for sale are real racquets and they probably play as well as your typical $200 frame. They just have different specifications. Tennis racquets cost from $5 to $10 to manufacture and they get sold from $150 to $250 (I'm not talking about the discount frames at WalMart which cost much less). The harm is in a player looking for a specific model getting something else. The average player really wouldn't know the difference.
I don't believe that the government should be allowed to dictate price. The market already does a good job of that. If you can get fakes for a fraction of branded goods, then those fakes could just come up with their own brand and sell them at discounted prices. WalMart sells a brand called Faded Glory or something similar and their prices for that brand are low compared to similar products at stores that provide more service. They just can't call them Levis or whatever else is popular these days.
Let's take a look at tech products. Are there counterfeit Dell, Apple, HP products? I don't believe that there are in the United States - at least I haven't read about any and I follow tech news pretty closely.
In tech, your best protection on brand is to innovate relentlessly. Someone can make a knockoff of your product but you release a new product with new features and benefits before they can get copies rolling off the production line. Apple has done a masterful job at relentless innovation.
Look at the Android-based smartphones. I think that the product development cycle is down to months now. Hard to copy products when they continuously come out with new stuff.
This kind of competition strongly benefits the consumer and government intervention isn't really needed.
Things like watches, handbags, clothes, etc. where the benefits are clearly obvious or perhaps they are subjective probably do require more enforcement. I would guess that the companies themselves pay for enforcement in addition to contacting legal authorities when arrests and prosecutions are required.
There is a tech company that has a product that is widely counterfeited and that spends a lot of money fighting counterfeiting and that's Microsoft. They have a product that many teenagers and people in other countries feel is free because it is so easy to get. Microsoft has tried all kinds of different methods to fight this including selling their products in other countries for far lower prices than they sell them in developed countries. This seems to be a reasonable solution.
They have tried all kinds of software security approaches with many of these coming back to bite them as legitimate customers complain about the hassle. I do prefer to see market-based solutions where possible and especially where it is easy.
If the government provides trademark protection should the government be allowed to dictate price? Is there a special tax paid by these companies or is trademark protection paid for from general funds? In tough budget times what is the value of trademark protection to the general public?
Hey, discuss the existence of the Department of Homeland Security which was made a Cabinet level position under a Republican Administration. I'm good with that. I think it's slightly unfair to give a Department or Agency specific responsibilites and then bitching that they are actually doing their job.
As far as DHS goes - Many other departments were thrown under their umbrella - including the US Coast Guard (formerly under the Dept of Transportation). ICE was formed at the same time as DHS when a bunch of other Federal departments were thrown together - including US Customs Service and Immigration and Naturalization. While it falls under the Homeland Security umbrella but like their Coast Guard counterpart their mission is not limited to ferreting out terrorists.
BCEagle - since counterfeit goods are imported from abroad (mostly China) the enforcement falls under Customs as opposed to FTC. According to wiki here is the mission of ICE: responsible for identifying, investigating, and dismantling vulnerabilities regarding the nation's border, economic, transportation, and infrastructure security.
I think that people that buy counterfeit goods generally know that they are taking a risk when buying from unofficial channels. I play tennis and follow it on a major tennis forum and one big area of discussion is counterfeits. People often post pictures of their model and ask if it is real or not. The level of detail in reproducing frames is remarkable. If you buy off of Ebay, you take a risk. If you buy from established channels, the odds of getting a fake are very, very small.
Brand is very important and should probably be protected but wouldn't this fall under the FTC? Which branch of government dealt with this before Homeland Security was created? The fakes problem has been around for a long, long time.
The rationale for the immensely powerful and , yes, expensive Homeland Security bureaucracy with its immeanse power to infringe on personal privacy and freedoms was to "keep us safe".
Protection of corporate profits was NO part of its original mission.
I do not feel particularily threatened by bootleg movies or knockoff high heels and handbags.
Try to get the government to enforce a patent! You have to drag it into civil court and litigate for years to get payment, and usually no "cease and desist" order.
The mentioned circumstance is a plain and obvious diversion of scarce government resources from their intended use to benefit some well connected copyright holders.
Let them go to court to enforce their rights. And pay for it.
Interesting. So we should just become China and allow bootleggers to run rampant. Let's just eliminate Customs.
ICE is able to investigate and convict (or allow to plea out) many violaters of Child Porn laws because of their Customs enforcement. When people download photos from Russia or Europe - they get a knock on the door. These (mostly) men are not terrorists, so to speak. They are not planning to cause death and destruction so we should just turn a cheek and allow them to continue?
My whole point is the umbrella under which Homeland Securtiy operates is a large one. It includes other missions than simply "terrorism".
Your point that resources are limited - hmmmmm I don't buy it. Should the City of Baltimore refuse to spend resources prosecuting shoplifters because of their murder rate?
Give a bureaucrat the option of going after copyright violators or drug smugglers, which do you think they will choose to do?
It is a question of the best use of limited resources.
Copyrights can be resolved as a civil matter or handled by the FBI, not itself part of Homeland Security.
The government does not have infinite resources. It has to "pick and choose" which laws to enforce. I am saying this is a bad choice, probably motivated by someone or some industry with political pull.
Meanwhile the borders are broken and the terrorists plot... but Snow White is safe from illegal copying and distribution.
I do not consider fake Pradas or bogus Rolexes to be as serious as murdered border town sheriffs and deputies.
Give a bureaucrat the option of going after copyright violators or drug smugglers, which do you think they will choose to do?
It is a question of the best use of limited resources.
Copyrights can be resolved as a civil matter or handled by the FBI, not itself part of Homeland Security.
The government does not have infinite resources. It has to "pick and choose" which laws to enforce. I am saying this is a bad choice, probably motivated by someone or some industry with political pull.
Meanwhile the borders are broken and the terrorists plot... but Snow White is safe from illegal copying and distribution.
But the house is burning down. These sites are violation copyright laws. Knock-offs are illegal. That fake Rolex or Prada hand bag is illegal. Downloading copyrighted music is illegal. So now are we supposed to ignore the enforcement of some laws because they seem to be innocuous?
BigG thinks Homeland Security should concentrate on "security" but I was simply pointing out their mission is much broader than that. ICE has responsibilities over and above 'securtiy' including enforcement of copyrights and intellectual property.
I don't think wikileaks is violation copyright laws - unless the Gov't has gotten a copyright on classified documents. I would agree that if there is not there should be a law against anyone promulgating US classified documents. Personally I think the owner of that site should be prosecuted for treason - I don't know if he is a US Citizen though. The military is currently proceeding with the prosecution of the provider of those documents - too little, too late.
The function of ICE is broad. This is also the agency responsible for most child porn stings and arrests. They routinely set up stings to snag people who either are engaging in child porn/sex or planning to.
-- Edited by justamomof4 on Saturday 27th of November 2010 11:16:23 AM
justamom, it's kind of like having the fire department doing safety inspections and ignoring the alarm when you house is burning down. Just saying...
I agree with the above and also, why are sites which allow downloading of mp3's more of a priority than the wikileaks? Why are these leaks being tolerated when a domain name can be seized?
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And who cares if you disagree? You are not me Who made you king of anything? So you dare tell me who to be? Who died and made you king of anything? ~Sara Barielles
ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) is under the Department of Homeland Security. Protecting copyrights and intellectual property is the responsibility of ICE - among others. Why have copyright laws if they are not going to be enforced?
This reminds me of the public schools. My daughter once had to spend an entire lunch period picking up trash because she had accidentally left a gift bag on the table (it was the holiday time, and she and a friend had been exchanging gifts), but the major school bullies and haters are left alone. It's considerably easier to take on the compliant weaklings while ignoring the real problems!
__________________
And who cares if you disagree? You are not me Who made you king of anything? So you dare tell me who to be? Who died and made you king of anything? ~Sara Barielles
It is so good to know that the desperate terrorists are defeated and the borders are secure so Homeland Security has resources to spare for copyright infringement.
Shouldn't Homeland Security concentrate on , well, SECURITY!!!
No wonder the Chinese are "eating our lunch". Our government is just flat dam stupid.
-- Edited by BigG on Saturday 27th of November 2010 07:32:37 AM
-- Edited by BigG on Saturday 27th of November 2010 07:33:56 AM