Political & Elections

catahoula · Guru

RE: I lost a health insurance plan I liked so Sandra Fluke won't have to pay for her own birth control

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

There are so many unintended consequences that will come out of ACA over next few years. I hope you all have your seat belts on. It is going to be a bumpy ride.

The subsidy issue is huge. As the issue with blankmind illustrates, it is a problem.

The kicking people off plans is huge.

The unaffordability of insurance is huge.

So many will game the system. Less incentive to make more if you can save and get a subsidy.

The economy will be the niggest casualty.

hope · Guru

A Colorado lawmaker has threatened legislation to clamp down on Colorado's health exchange after a racy ad campaign went viral around the U.S.

Stupid party indeed. These guys still seem to think the war hasn't been lost. Sillies.

longprime · Guru

Blankmind: Yeah, that's the ticket. So much easier than just admitting that Obamacare is causing more harm than good.

No, it is capitalism for the worker. Employers should not be burdened with employee's health or employee's family's health. Look what happened to the US legacy auto unions and companies.

I live in an At-Will employment state. That is, at-will, for nongovernment employees. Don't you have friiends or yourself who are/were government employees, who just bend my patience when they complain about their benefits.

blankmind · Senior Member

Hey, if you don't like the benefits--Quit.

Yeah, that's the ticket. So much easier than just admitting that Obamacare is causing more harm than good.

catahoula · Guru

Long lost and it's hard to imagine what kind of horrific cultural shift would be required to stiffen the cultural backbone.

'Free, no bedtime, and no judgement' is a pretty darn persuasive argument against the idea of any bit of personal responsibility. Scratch that... 'no judgement' is kind of weak description of what's really been a decades long self-esteem building exercise for sleazy little slackers.

Heck, a political party has evolved just to enable. biggrin

-- Edited by catahoula on Tuesday 26th of November 2013 07:14:14 PM

busdriver11 · Guru

"So the company my husband works for has announced next year's health care. They've decided to cut the employer subsidy, which of course, has caused a huge increase in health care expense for the employees. For some of the employees, the increase is simply unaffordable. Some of these employees checked out the CA exchange to see if they could find something more affordable, hoping that with the subsidies they could afford to pay for insurance for next year. Unfortunately, it turns out that if your employer offers insurance, you cannot get a subsidy, even if you can't afford the insurance your employer offers."

That really stinks. Wow. So how many people are going to be completely priced out of the HI market? People with serious health conditions in their families would be better to quit their jobs and go on Medicaid instead.

"But hey, Sandra Fluke gets free birth control, so it's all good."

And she could have gotten free birth control (or at $5 a pop) at any of the five Planned Parenthood clinics within walking distance of her campus.

longprime · Guru

Business gotta get out of the Benefit business. No more Pension. No more 401k. No more employee HI. biggrin . Not joking. I mean it. Hate corporate socialism. smile

longprime · Guru

Hey, if you don't like the benefits--Quit.

Oregon Public Employees have one of those HI that is deemed to be "premium level". Taxpayer are going to pay a premium tax to maintain this program. disbelief I can't wait until we knock down the SEIU down a couple of notches. biggrin evileye . I gonna give my state rep something for Thanksgiving-I am thinking a few pounds of rare fruit (Pineapple Guava) that I found near our homes.

blankmind · Senior Member

I don't even know what to say about those ads.

So the company my husband works for has announced next year's health care. They've decided to cut the employer subsidy, which of course, has caused a huge increase in health care expense for the employees. For some of the employees, the increase is simply unaffordable. Some of these employees checked out the CA exchange to see if they could find something more affordable, hoping that with the subsidies they could afford to pay for insurance for next year. Unfortunately, it turns out that if your employer offers insurance, you cannot get a subsidy, even if you can't afford the insurance your employer offers.

But hey, Sandra Fluke gets free birth control, so it's all good.

catahoula · Guru

Long quote from Samuelson but it sums up clearly how many shoes are still to drop:

The employer market divides into two parts. Most big firms (the IBMs, Procter & Gambles) self-insure. They define workers' benefits and pay the costs directly. The ACA largely exempts these plans from the "essential benefits" standards on the apparent assumption that the plans are generous. When the president said people wouldn't lose their existing coverage, he was probably referring to self-insured firms. About 60 percent of workers with employer-provided insurance receive it from these companies, according to government figures.

The other 40 percent get it from mostly smaller firms that buy coverage from insurance companies. The ACA "grandfathered" policies that existed when the law was passed. People could (as Obama promised) keep those plans, even if they didn't meet the law's standards. But there was a big catch that largely nullifies this protection: Minor changes to existing policies would cause firms to lose their "grandfathered" status. Not surprisingly, that's happened. In 2014, perhaps three-quarters of small firms (fewer than 100 workers) will no longer be grandfathered, estimates economist Stan Veuger of the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank.

How many people might be affected by cancellations is unclear. Veuger's estimate of vulnerable firms implies a maximum of about 50 million workers and dependents, but it could be much lower. Still, even half of that would be a lot. Cancellations won't hit immediately, because the administration allowed firms to renew existing policies through most of 2014. Interestingly, though the ACA doesn't require firms with fewer than 50 full-time workers to provide insurance, they must comply with the ACA's standards if they do buy it. This might cause some firms to drop coverage.

Ain't enough people working as it is... if all these quit, who's left to cover the groceries and light bill?

-- Edited by catahoula on Tuesday 26th of November 2013 01:24:17 PM

longprime · Guru

I imagine that DS will also "lose" his employer's HI. No deductible-copay HI plan, nominal monthly payroll deduction.

longprime · Guru

This controversial ad riffing off the legendary "got milk?" campaign is one of several marketing health insurance to young people in Colorado.

Still got a DS that does some of the activities in the Colorado Ads. Still single too. evileye

longprime · Guru

I haven't seen a Oregon advertisement for a long time, Maybe because I am watching satellite and watching CNBC and Ameritrade.

Anyhow, All this attacks by the Stupid Party about the failed deadlines got me off-the-chair and talked to the insurance broker. He jumped when I said I had some property nearby. He has a vitners degree from Germany and I got an ag degree too.

longprime · Guru

well, I googled and discovered that a Stupid Party functionary wanted to muzzle free speech.

A Colorado lawmaker has threatened legislation to clamp down on Colorado's health exchange after a racy ad campaign went viral around the U.S.

State Rep. Bob Gardner, R-Colorado Springs, attacked a social media campaign launched by the liberal group ProgressNow and health advocates at the Colorado Consumer Health Initiative.

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2013/11/25/racy-health-exchange-ads-rile-colorado.html

googled another and got a Goldman Sachs, advertisement.

hope · Guru

We've lost the culture war.

There truly is nothing left to do but cry.

i don't know if millennials even understand how condescending and insulting towards them those ads are.

The left seems to have a vested interest in keeping twenty-somethings childlike and dependent as long as possible.

Google "Colorado Obamacare ads" and you can see all of them.

-- Edited by hope on Monday 25th of November 2013 08:55:15 PM

catahoula · Guru

Looked SF up to see what she's been doing since her modest contribution to the WarOnWomen storyline and found this - coverage of Limbaugh's coverage:

The ads, which have been criticized on Fox News and dozens of conservative websites, suggest that women love Obamacare because it gives them access to free contraception. One features a woman next to a cardboard cutout of Gosling with the text: “Hey girl, you’re excited about easy access to birth control and I’m excited about getting to know you.” Another ad has a woman showing off her birth-control pills while standing next to man and saying: “OMG, he’s hot! Let’s hope he’s as easy to get as this birth control.”

Pretty damn classy. Don't know about you but that's so '60s Madison Avenue, I'm left thinking 'Breakfast at Tiffany's' and true love... guess I'm just a romantic at heart.

When the administration realizes they might reach a little more sophisticated audience by having Miley Cyrus butt-stamp (a twerky little seal of approval) each one of these ads, I think I'll just cry.

-- Edited by catahoula on Monday 25th of November 2013 06:53:30 PM

FarmDad · Veteran Member

"I will not buy on exchange until government could assure me my privacy is protected At least as well as any bank. the risk for identity theft are astronomically high, based on encryption of website and those that have been hired as navigators who will collect your data."

Friends don't let friends put their private identification and financial information on healthcare.gov.

cbreeze · Veteran Member

I should have said, " The real question for the health provider to the low income client, is, " Who is going to pay for the Care when provided"" This is the question that has always been asked by ERs, hospitals, and doctors. In many cases, it is medical bankruptcy for the patient and a write-off for the provider.

That is not true.
In 2003, the American Southwest saw 77 hospitals enter bankruptcy due to unpaid medical bills incurred by illegal aliens, not including the uninsured Americans. A staggering 84 hospitals in California have been forced to close their doors because of the growing crisis.

U.S. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) has fought for tougher immigration enforcement for many years, and recently told the Ventura County Star: “When you see $5 aspirin, it’s not $5 aspirin, it’s not corruption, it’s the hospital trying to take care of the illegal alien who didn’t have insurance.”

Ditto for the uninsured Americans.

longprime · Guru

The real question for the low income client is, Who is going to pay for that Care when needed

I should have said, " The real question for the health provider to the low income client, is, " Who is going to pay for the Care when provided"" This is the question that has always been asked by ERs, hospitals, and doctors. In many cases, it is medical bankruptcy for the patient and a write-off for the provider.

-- Edited by longprime on Thursday 21st of November 2013 10:38:18 AM

longprime · Guru

Busdriver11; http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/16602902-post5066.html

I meant 4,500. Yeah, if you can afford 4.5 mil out of pocket, why pay for insurance!

Au Contraire. The wealthier one is, the cheaper insurance appears plus the insurance protects The Wealth.

One of Stupid Party's arguments is that the lower income citizens will not buy ObamaCare because it is still too expensive for their budget. That may be so. In this situation, the low income client will not be able to immediately afford the deductible no matter what the amount. The real question for the low income client is, Who is going to pay for that Care when needed ?

catahoula · Guru

Y'all make his crutch sound like a bad thing. Beside the fact truth's a handicap when you're bent towards doing the greater good, it could be the entirety of his plan just isn't yet clear to the average guy or girl:

Here's where it gets gooey. Many spiritually advanced people I know (not coweringly religious, mind you, but deeply spiritual) identify Obama as a Lightworker, that rare kind of attuned being who has the ability to lead us not merely to new foreign policies or health care plans or whatnot, but who can actually help usher in a new way of being on the planet, of relating and connecting and engaging with this bizarre earthly experiment. These kinds of people actually help us evolve. They are philosophers and peacemakers of a very high order, and they speak not just to reason or emotion, but to the soul.

Love to talk the author of that 2008 piece today and ask him a few questions: how he feels about Scientology, then and now, for instance. Also, who can I see in network about getting the scales removed from my lying eyes and whether he thinks it's going to be a covered expense. A group rate, at the least.

busdriver11 · Guru

"Lying is just a reflex for this guy."

I think even his supporters are starting to realize this. It's all a bunch of bull. I suppose that's why his approval numbers are finally starting to drop

FarmDad · Veteran Member

(Reuters) - President Barack Obama, who has portrayed himself as surprised by technical problems with the government's new health care website, was briefed earlier this year on a consultant's report that warned of possible widespread site failures, the White House said on Tuesday.

www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/20/us-usa-healthcare-idUSBRE9AI18920131120

Lying is just a reflex for this guy.

john doe · Guru

I don't remember - it was quite a while ago. I have several different gmail accounts with different usernames. Maybe I also created the account on another computer?

john doe · Guru

Unfortunately on cc, I had to change my name to post some specific questions. Other posters know my family members and on the issues I was asking information about, I didn't want the other posters to know.

busdriver11 · Guru

Hmm, that is interesting. I have no clue. I don't know if you keep the same personality, or if you change it. Some people pretend to be the opposite sex, or completely change their details. Other people stay consistent. It can be hard to pick out purely from a posting style, though some people have consistent posting styles, even if they change the names. I never change anything, I'm completely truthful, though sometimes I (occasionally, of course) may be incorrect, or have forgotten correct details. I figure if someone recognizes me, then that's fine....

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

I had two accounts at CC pretty much from the beginning. While I have been honest about who I am and what I do, I found out the hard way that my identifying info was too easy for people to figure out who I was, and found out the hard way at a local business when a parent asked me if I was littlegreenmom. Yep. I would usually post using one screenname for very specific things, and use the other quite sporadically when I wanted to be more private.

I posted twice in one day on two different threads and somehow the mods didn't like that and told me I was banned from one of the accounts, and I could choose which one to keep. It was annoying, and after that I spent substantially less time at that board.

How do you do it, john doe? IP Anonymizer service?

-- Edited by SamuraiLandshark on Tuesday 19th of November 2013 11:19:22 AM

john doe · Guru

"Wonder who John Doe is in the cc world. Hmm....hard to know if they keep deleting him."

I love a good mystery! I will say that you wouldn't know me from those deleted messages. I have several names on cc, one of which you would definitely know me.

busdriver11 · Guru

I'm rooting for Washington, I hope you're nearby! I have no friends anymore, they are all way too busy for the likes of me....not that I'm ever home anyways. Just consider moving closer to me for my sake? Yeah, okay, a little selfish, but the economy around my area seems pretty hot. And the hot tub is set at 104 degrees!

Wonder who John Doe is in the cc world. Hmm....hard to know if they keep deleting him.

It is hard to resist sarcasm on the ACA threads, but it looks like they shut it down once again. Some people just can't keep politics out of it! I have been resisting being political and intentionally addressing issues that they have banned, out of respect for what they wish, but then again, you never know if what you're posting is something they don't want you to talk about anymore.

I have also resisted asking calmom if she is a navigator, or had something to do with the writing of the health care law. She is very smart and helpful to many people, but so incredibly knowledgeable and so supportive of every single thing about the ACA, that it just seems a little much. Something that is bad for a group of people? Oh, it's really a good thing. No...it's not, it's bad, and you can't spin every possible thing about it, who would, and why? Even if you're a supporter, it is not all good.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

I have a part time job, no benefits. Also have a consulting business and am a sole proprietor.

Currently, husband has job with benefits...but we would like to relocate, so this cost weighs heavy into our decisionmaking process, as well as the state we live in.

longprime · Guru

It would appear that KaiserP really doesn't want new clients. When I go to the K's clinic, it's mostly the elderly who are on medicare and the older >40<65 who have been longtime KP'ers. Check-it out yourself. Their model closed care system forces clients to stay longterm clients.

longprime · Guru

So, you have a Wife-with-Benefits/ biggrin

john doe · Guru

Perhaps I missed this, but I'm assuming that you and most of the people complaining about aca are self - employed? Even though I'm on my wife's plan, my company plan is not that much more - it just has a deductible while my wife's does not.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

There was a deductible Kaiser bronze and silver plan - which was absolutely absurd. Cannot imagine paying nearly $30,000 a uear before even getting a single dime reimbursed.

With these plans, the key will be to work out scenarios, see what risk and benefit based on previous healthcare consumption and how much we are willing to pay upfront.

I will not buy on exchange until government could assure me my privacy is protected At least as well as any bank. the risk for identity theft are astronomically high, based on encryption of website and those that have been hired as navigators who will collect your data.

My guess is single payor is in our future. Maybe that was intent the whole time.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

1600 a month when I priced out my current plan on Covered California. That is two parents over 45, 3 adult kids under 26.

That had a super low deductible, Kaiser.

Other plans were ranging from 1400 a month with 6,000 individual or 12,700 family deductible.

john doe · Guru

"My health insurance premiums at $19,000 per year for my family, times 20 years - before deductibles - is $380,000."

Seems like a lot, what is the deductible, copays, prescription costs?

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

First she was all for advising Bronze as the cheapest way to go - that is, if you never really used the plan.

Now she is saying that silver has good things, because even co-pays get subsidized discounts on billing of procedures, not just premiums..

Really?

I think what we should have had was a basic catastrophic plan available to everyone. If you wanted a rider, than apply directly with insurance company.

Lucky you, John Doe.

john doe · Guru

Calmom certainly is something and has some really vested interest in this to spend so much time discussing the issues. ACA is not really particularly relevant to me at this stage so I only look at the discussions in a casual way. My wife is in a school system and I am under her insurance. I have a lot of medical issues so I'm not complaining. In a few years, I'll be on medicare.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

Wow, that was so dry, I completely misunderstood. If it came from poetgirl or Bay or busdriver, I would have gone with sarcasm theory.

do you think Calmom is a navigator?

john doe · Guru

Ha! I'm pulling your leg - it was definitely sarcastic but I'm seeing worse comments getting through.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

I saw that comment before deleted. I figured it was a compliment and not said sarcastically.

It is really fascinating what is allowed at CC, sometimes. I saw a comment that stuck when a couple pages that followed was deleted.

The comment was absolutely political. But it jived with the mods, I guess.

john doe · Guru

I didn't think it was political. It was a response to calmom who mentioned that a lot of people didn't know how deficient their policies were. I responded with, it's good to know that we have the government and calmom to protect us. It was a compliment.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

Was it even remotely political? What buttons did you push?

john doe · Guru

My CC ACA comment lasted a few seconds before it was removed. Didn't even get a warning!

blankmind · Senior Member

I think the economy will be lucky if it manages to putter along. With the new mandatory, much more expensive insurance, families will have to scale back on everything else. I hope the economy has an insurance policy to cover man-made disasters.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

I am actually going to be proactive, and post my post here, because it will probably be deleted at CC.

SamuraiLandshark

Senior Member

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: No, I don't have 2 billion posts

Posts: 2,147,484,413

GP and Calmom could spin this same issue endlessly, but what gets a lot of folks is that we will be required to shell out what could be the cost of a new car, each year - and still not get what we had before.

Yes, I get how the coverage for everyone might be "richer" with benefits.

I also get how the cost has to be spread over all the population to make the math "work".

I get how "lucky" some are to have "better" coverage for "cheaper" for years.

The idea, for many, is hard to take that we all have to buy an insurance product on the free market that has so many regulations and that is not underwritten based on age or gender or even need, that may just be our biggest individual or family expense each month.

If you wanted to buy a Honda, but I wanted to buy a Ferrari, we wouldn't buy the "same" underwritten coverage, would be?

No. The risk pools would be different, based on age and experience and even, zip code. We wouldn't have to purchase coverage with every bell and whistle.

So yeah, everyone will either suck it up and figure out a way to purchase insurance or hope they get a job with coverage or pay the penalty - but the system will still have uninsureds out there. And people who cannot afford coverage.

There will still be folks who cannot or will not purchase, or millions kicked off policies who our President has now said they do not have to be and now it is up to insurance commissioners in each state, and big insurers figuring out how to revamp this program.

The real winners will be the insurance companies. If I had money, I would invest heavily in buying healthcare stocks. Because they are going to clean up in the coming years.

And that economy thing? It will continue to putter along for the unforeseeable future, with companies still unsure of healthcare costs for possibly years to come.

Seriously, you can't make this stuff up.

catahoula · Guru

In Iowa, the disappointment in Obama and the health-care law’s rollout is deeper and more personally felt than in much of the rest of the country. That’s because, nearly six years ago, Iowans propelled Obama’s national career with his upset victory in the January 2008 presidential primary caucuses, setting the stage for beating Hillary Rodham Clinton for the Democratic nomination.

“It’s terrible, it’s painful to watch. We really do know him,” Dvorsky said. “Watching this is gut-wrenchingly painful.”

She said she thinks HealthCare.gov will be functioning well by the Nov. 30 deadline because that’s what the president said. “If I’m wrong, there’s going to be phenomenal pain.”

Can't imagine how painful this really is for her but I think it'd be safe to say she doesn't feel very smart.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/health-care-law-has-changed-game-for-democrats-looking-to-2014-election/2013/11/16/71d8e5fa-4e65-11e3-be6b-d3d28122e6d4_story_1.html

catahoula · Guru

Occurred to me we haven't seen the 'ass-kicker' side of the president in.... well, quite a while. Really strange, too, since the butts needing the boot are either people that work for him, carry water for him, or fill his own perfectly creased slacks (hat tip to the NYT's David Brooks). Well within reach of his loafers, in other words.

That press conference from yesterday was just dismal. So much of a disconnect from the glory days of the BP spill and the 'yes, we can' bs, that I wouldn't be surprised if rumors started floating about a cradle swap. That someone snatched our fashionably thin JFK clone and left something kind of Carteresque.

FarmDad · Veteran Member

As the entire health insurance industry is preparing for the inevitable death spiral meltdown, all dems up for reelection in 2014 are running for the hills as fast as they can. I guess they finally read the bill and now know what they voted for. Who's the stupid party now?