Political & Elections

Emeraldkity · In exile

RE: Did Hostess closing down kill the Unions?

catahoula · Guru

Wasn't there a program that did something like that?

Don't recall the specifics, might not have even been DC, but do remember the video testimonials that were cut with students asking that it not be discontinued. Mmm.... think they were asking our current president to intervene.

Razorsharp · Guru

For $25,000 per year, they could all go to private school with smaller classes and better teachers.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

For 25,000 a year, these kids should be performing at top levels, without fudging anything. Or at least that is what conventional wisdom suggests.

busdriver11 · Guru

Hi Emeraldkity. Glad to see you on here with the rest of us troublemakers!

busdriver11 · Guru

"Does it matter?

Suppose the test scores were fudge. Fictitious scores means that people see some positive results. Lee keeps her job but more importantly the students, parents, taxpayers will they continue to pay and support."

So....25K a year, and you consider fictitious scores as positive results? It doesn't matter if the teachers are cheating on the scores and the kids aren't improving, just keep spending money and everyone keeps their jobs? I don't think that was the point of the money or the tests, do you?

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

Are DC schools still spending 25,000 per student, a year to educate students and not getting results?

longprime · Guru

Does it matter?

Suppose the test scores were fudge. Fictitious scores means that people see some positive results. Lee keeps her job but more importantly the students, parents, taxpayers will they continue to pay and support.

Suppose you had DC schools maintain their low level of achievement. The outcome is What? -Lee gets fired and another administator is found.

and of course, the third option, IS......

Emeraldkity · In exile

DC test scores went up with her as chancellor, and now they are nose diving. I wonder why. Student standardized-test scores at an award-winning D.C. school dropped dramatically in 2011 after the principal tightened security out of concern about possible cheating, according to a new “Frontline” television documentary to be broadcast Tuesday. The hour-long program raises questions about whether District officials have adequately investigated persistent suspicions that public school employees may have tampered with tests during the tenure of former schools chancellor Michelle A. Rhee. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/documentary-examines-michelle-rhees-legacy-in-dc/2013/01/04/ae86e8a6-55f7-11e2-8b9e-dd8773594efc_story.html

longprime · Guru

Re: LA Longshore Dock Clerks' strike

busdriver11 · Guru

RE: Did Hostess closing down kill the Unions?

longprime · Guru

cider or vinegar? If you are lucky, apple sauce and apple bread biggrin -bread crumbs on the pilots seat and a sticky throttle handle. smile

-- Edited by longprime on Sunday 2nd of December 2012 07:34:10 PM

longprime · Guru

FYI, made another 2 apple crisps. Apples are too old, not as as tart as a month ago and consequently, too sweet.

busdriver11 · Guru

samurai, you would have been entertained when Krispy Kreme opened up in Issaquah (Seattle suburb) a number of years ago. There were lines around the block that took hours to get through. Hours. Can you believe that? All for a free hot donut off the conveyor belt, and of course nobody walked away without a dozen. My husband could polish off 5 of them before we got onto the freeway entrance (about 4 blocks away). I think we were seriously junk food and donut deprived around here. Now, we go by and don't even stop. No more lines.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

I don't love Krispy Kremes. They were all the rage several years ago, but they are too sweet for me.

pima · Guru

Have you had a Krispy Kreme donut? That will be a game changer...HOT DONUTS NOW! HEHEHE!

longprime · Guru

Yes, I have had KK donuts. just off the conveyor belt.

http://gifrific.com/mckayla-maroneys-not-impressed-face-on-podium/ evileye

WINCO have Little Debbie's, including the Twinkie lookalike. But I was on a mission to find some Poise (Depends).

My neighbor and I used to have DD and "The World's Best Coffee," after coming off the graveyard, 10 hr shift. -Yes at that time, you could work a 15yo, 50 hrs, straight-time.

-- Edited by longprime on Wednesday 28th of November 2012 08:12:49 PM

-- Edited by longprime on Wednesday 28th of November 2012 08:19:49 PM

-- Edited by longprime on Wednesday 28th of November 2012 08:22:21 PM

longprime · Guru

Gawd, I could go for a Dunkin Donut and coffee.

I extremely dislike that other brand of donuts and the local taste alikes. I like the chewy and yeast raised type.

longprime · Guru

Heartily agree.

The reference to mexican is only to show that if one has an urge, there are substitutes.

Our PNW woes in Unions. Port of Portland takes one dispute off docket, but hard work remains | OregonLive.com

This morning reports is that the there will be a strike on the PNW grain terminals (6 terminals, 25% of USA grain). Longshore Union wants to talk more, but owners want concessions to match agreement made with a competing union. Lockout likely and hiring of nonunion workers.

http://www.oregonlive.com/business/index.ssf/2012/11/longshore_union_seeks_extensio.html#incart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

Perhaps the Union bosses who brought down Hostess should have taken an Economics course. Or maybe a business management course. Not that they care.

longprime · Guru

Cat, It's really not 'mexican pastries', just made by mexicans. Wheat is not a hot weather crop. The pastry thing probably was a Pacific NW's softwheat/low gluten growers-landgrant university initiative to sell more softwheat. I have also seen asian pastry stores with the same items-but with lycee and mandarian orange cream. smile

In the Columbia River Ports, we have union jurisidictional problems. NOT union-management issues. 2011-current

1. A new grain terminal was built and the owners signed on with A union to man the port. Then B union said that they should be the union to do the work. These are grain loading jobs. Ship loading was stopped on the entire west coast, Seattle, Tacoma, Oakland, San Diego. Ships were diverted to BC and Tijuana.

2. Longshoremen took over the disconnect-connect of refrigeration units from the electrician union, affecting only container terminals. Again affecting entire west coast ports.

3. Security Union strike for job security. Afraid that management might go and hire a different union-security firm. Governor said that if this is not solved by today, the last container ship to the Port of Portland was two weeks ago. Resolved over the weekend with contract renewal to 2015.

catahoula · Guru

Maybe George Will should have spent a little more space assessing exactly which union's thumbs are all over Hostess liquidating:

----------------

The real story is the story of two unions, the Teamsters and the Bakery union of the AFL-CIO. Here's where things get interesting.

The Teamsters reluctantly agreed to givebacks to finance the company's latest turnaround attempt. The bakers rejected any concessions and went out on strike, despite being informed that the result would be the liquidation of the parent company and the loss of 18,500 jobs.

Tsk tsk, went even the liberal media, assuming that union bloody-mindedness must be at work. Think again. As the bakers rightly saw it, they were being asked once more to prop up Teamster jobs that would likely guarantee that any Hostess resurrection would be short-lived.

Start with the fact that Hostess's bakery operations are relatively efficient, and though the company planned to sell or close some of the plants anyway, the company had the power to do so already under its union contracts.

Under the latest turnaround plan, the sticking point was Hostess's distribution operations, source of the Hostess horror stories filling the media. Union-imposed work rules stopped drivers from helping to load their trucks. A separate worker, arriving at the store in a separate vehicle, had to be employed to shift goods from a storage area to a retailer's shelf. Wonder Bread and Twinkies couldn't ride on the same truck.

Hostess has spent eight of the past 11 years in bankruptcy. As the company explained to its latest judge, the Hostess brands "have not been able to profit from many of their existing delivery stops and have been unable to enter potentially profitable markets, such as dollar stores, vending services and movie theaters."

If Hostess were able to rationalize or outsource delivery to serve these customers, ready to go are "new products based on its best-selling cake items that have a longer shelf-life and can withstand freezing en route to customers over longer transportation hauls."

Under pressure on Monday from Judge Robert Drain to back down from their strike aimed at forcing the company to liquidate, the bakers themselves pointed to "what everyone in the baking industry knew: Hostess's production costs were neither excessive nor out of line with the market but its distribution costs were—to the tune of between $80 million and $130 million annually."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324352004578130912150512612.html

---------------

Kind of makes you wonder what Teamsters know about Twinkies and Ding-Dongs that the rest of us don't and why they can't be allowed around the WonderBread without, not one, but two, chaperones.

catahoula · Guru

Hostess brands includes all the name brands that you mentioned. Entenmans, Drakes, Oroweat, Tastee Cakes, Little Debs, etc. Most of these brands are replicated by local mexican bakeries which have lower expenses- no delivery costs, locally managed-owned, no packaging cost, no middleman.

LP: Live in Texas, grocery shop about every day, and have probably stepped into tens of thousands of chain and local Stop&Robs over my lifetime - of all ethnicities - and haven't ever bought a mexican pastry. Do the whole Tex-Mex restaraunt thing, cook Mexican at home from the books, but I'm not slipping off into knock-off pastry.

longprime · Guru

IMO

Unions are now their own worst enemies. POB can not help unions if they are so narrowly focused to just saving jobs and increasing/preserving benefits.PBO saved union jobs only as a byproduct of saving companies that are important to USA's overall economy. Jobs are changing in skill levels and having skills is the key in finding a job, keeping a job, moving to a better job. The next Congressional cycle we will see Unions move to the R side because R's represent Traditionalism.

Hostess brands includes all the name brands that you mentioned. Entenmans, Drakes, Oroweat, Tastee Cakes, Little Debs, etc. Most of these brands are replicated by local mexican bakeries which have lower expenses- no delivery costs, locally managed-owned, no packaging cost, no middleman. Oroweat may survive because of their premium quality and higher profit margins.

Hostess's unions fail to see how mexican and reinsurgent local bakeries have changed their product market. Consequently Hostess, unions, will die along with most of their brands. cry

pima · Guru

LP, I am having difficulty following how Walmart bakery or even Mexican bakeries are on topic when we are talking about if Hostess workers hurt unions.

I am polish, maybe your position went up and over my head.

Hostess products are comparable to Entenmann's, Drakes, Tastee kakes, Little Debbies, etc.

Walmart bakery, along with grocery bakers compete against companies like Panera, Costco, BJs, or your Mom/Pop bakery.

Two different product lines. You want a loaf of white bread to make your kids PB & J, you buy Wonderbread, not Walmart bakery. You want a cake to take to someone's home, you buy Walmart bakery and not from Hostess.

Yes, they make the same products, but the consumers are different due to their needs/desires.

The only way I can understand and agree with your position is if you are talking about Walmart bread compared to Wonderbread, but than the fact is, Walmart bread is not baked at your store, it is baked at distribution center, and in that scenario, it would not be just your Walmart, it would be everyone's walmart bread.

Caveat: I am on the east coast, I have never frequented a mexican bakery. Italian and polish bakeries, yes, but I couldn't tell you one Mexican bakery in NJ, PA, VA or NC. NoVA is very interesting. East of 95 you probably would find a mexican bakery, west of 95, doubtful.

blankmind · Senior Member

Step away from the crackpipe longprime.

pima · Guru

LP,

That's a whole different thing when you say made by mexicans.

The fact still remains Walmart, and their ilk have distribution centers. If you buy a Pepsi in NY/NJ area it tastes different than when you buy it in OH or NC. The reason why is the chemicals in the water. I bet if you drank a Pepsi in the PNW, and than drank one in NJ you would say it tastes strange, but can't figure out why.

That brings us back to Hostess.
Hostess brands includes all the name brands that you mentioned. Entenmans, Drakes, Tastee Cakes, Little Debs, etc.
Hostess does not own Tastee Kakes, Little Debbies, Drakes or Entennmans. If they did the media would show people buying out Devil Dogs, krimpets, banana crunch cake and Star Crunchs.

They don't. My illustration was to prove that your Walmart comparison is not apples with apples, it is apples with oranges. Nobody buys Entennman's crunch cake or donuts because it is high quality. They buy for ease and convenience. There are many times that people will go to local bakeries
Here is a link to my hometown bakery. Go on Sat or Sun morning between 7 and 10, you will be shoulder to shoulder with everyone.

http://www.mendokersbakery.com/pastries.html

They are a Mom and Pop, and this yr will be 80 yrs.

As you stated unions are now their worst enemy.

PBO saved the auto industry because of the unions. I agreed with MR. The key thing was PBO put our tax dollars on the hook, and because of that the UAW did not have to re-negotiate their contracts. Had they gone into bankruptcy, the UAW would have been forced to work a new contract. GM would have never gone under, it was all about how their debt would be negotiated.

All PBO did by bailing them out, was stick it to tax payers, and give it to the union. Basically, he bought their vote. Whenever the country bails out a company, they never make it back like a company that declared Chapter 11. United Airlines for one is an example of how they can make it back. Amtrak is an example of how they never make it back. I believe the last I heard GM needs to trade near $40, and currently it is below $25. I can't imagine how many more yrs it will take to get to the $40 marker. Would you say as an investor, i.e. mutual funds, that this is a good ROI? I sure as sheeeaaattt can't.

First thing you learn in HR regarding unions is there are 7 standards of cause. 1 is viability of the company. The owners MUST show their accounting books. Hands are now tied because instead of filing 11 for re-org, the govt swooped in, and the books were no longer an issue.

Second thing you learn in HR regarding unions is their biggest expenditures are the bennies. Pension in particular. Right now because of JIT and robotics, there are less workers paying in, more taking out. This pyramid is about to go upside down. Hostess is proof of that fact.

Just watch, 10 yrs from now when we are in full blown baby boomer retirement there will be a lot more companies with union employees going under. You will also see it in the teacher's union. Michelle Rhee understood that fact and changed tenure programs. There are now 2 paths. One is higher pay, no tenure, based on test scores. The other is tenure at a lower pay. The squawk out of DC over this was insane. It is a bastion of liberal voters. She was shown the door when the mayor lost. Ironically, DC test scores went up with her as chancellor, and now they are nose diving.

JIC you didn't realize, the unions paid for ads bashing the mayor and Rhee. Rhee was a Cornell and Harvard grad. In 1997, Rhee founded and began serving as the CEO of The New Teacher Project, a non-profit which within ten years of its founding, had trained and supplied urban school districts with 23,000 mid-career professionals wanting to become classroom teachers

However she bucked the system, and the unions. She fired administrators for poor performance, but her real crime...giving teachers a choice with little to no regard to the union.

It is the same with Gov. Christie. He actually had the almighty gall to call out the unions, and teachers when he said I can't balance the budget AND meet your demands. He basically said you entered a career field that you admit and are proud of that you will never be a millionaire, but that was ok since the kids came 1st. They had to put their money where their mouth was, and in essence, if they wanted job security stop listening to the union, and get the fact there is no more money. Renegotiate your contract now if you want a job.

Look at Chicago and their teacher strike.
Yes, they got 17.6 % pay raise over 5 yrs. However, they loss a lot. In addition to the pay raises, the deal establishes for the first time an evaluation system for teachers that is based in part on student performance on standardized tests. It also gives principals more authority to hire teachers for their schools and extends the length of the school day.

~~ Evaluation system?
~~ Hiring
~~ Length of school day.

SO tell me again why anyone doesn't get Unions are declining.

-- Edited by pima on Monday 26th of November 2012 07:17:49 PM

longprime · Guru

At least the pig is still living and is now getting leaner and meaner.

Getting back to topic: Has anyone other than me frequent a Mexican bakery? My personal opinion is that they are not bad, just farirly fresh, too sweet, all the same taste and style, inexpensively cheap with very long open hours. They are putting pressure on traditional grocery baked and bread departments. Our Walmart's bakery are mexican style and even cheaper than the stand alone mexican bakeries.

winchester · Guru

no one here seriously believes the economy is anything other than a sick dog. One that's been powdered and rouged with gobs of money over the last few years, till it looks like a girl way past her prime still cruising the bars

So, the bailouts and stimuli were "lipstick on a pig?"

Well put. And true.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

It obviously makes perfect sense to segregate Twinkies from Cupcakes.

Logistically, the cost of transporting multiple shipments of a product line is illogical, more costly and, well the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The Hostess employees deserve not to have jobs. My husband worked in transportation logistics for a great many years. He had a big laugh about this move by Hostess.

longprime · Guru

Great Idea, outsourcing; The Hostess's management/investors still get to make their bonus's and profit; Consumers still get to satisfy their craves. Maybe outsources to Mexicali, Tijuana, and Haiti can be attractive especially in special enterprise zones. It can be done you know.

catahoula · Guru

She got it, as you could have, lp, if you'd just remembered that no one here seriously believes the economy is anything other than a sick dog. One that's been powdered and rouged with gobs of money over the last few years, till it looks like a girl way past her prime still cruising the bars.

That said, I was talking about the union employees rather than the owners. Thought I'd try to be fair to guys and girls who I'd seen claim they were being squeezed to death by the man... truth to power and all that. Read a piece by George Will this morning that destroyed the solidarity I'd been feeling with them, though. Most of it was geared toward the question of why Hostess didn't get a bailout, while GM did (which is an interesting question in and of itself) but he did find space to descibe one agreement Hostess had with the unions, namely that bread and pastries couldn't travel on the same truck to the same location, which was beneficial to the Teamsters (who, while advocating the vote by the bakery workers be by secret ballot instead of voice, happen to be big supporters of "card check" - forget the exact name of that legislation but it's something like the "Free Employee Choice" Act, or some such Orwellian crap.)

Razorsharp · Guru

It looks like you can't outsource twinkies to China. If it were possible to do so, I suspect he company would have them made in china for pennies instead of in the US. I am betting some other company will take over the brand in bankruptcy and the world will still be able to survive.

longprime · Guru

thx SLS for the translation.

Cat, too simplistic and not for discussion by me on Sunday. evileye

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

I believe Cat is alluding to business owners who aren't expanding, cutting full time workers to part time wages to avoid Obamacare tax liabilities. Hostile climate for doing business. Yes. Getting better? No. Too many regulations, expanding by the day. Why should businesses expand? Stay in states that where being in business is less profit-making each year? Those ice floes are going to get crowded with an aging population.

longprime · Guru

Not sure infact I know that I don't understand your last post. evileye

longprime · Guru

I could care less for unions or for individuals or for management. Each will succeed or fail by their own or other's failing. At least for Hostess.

-- Edited by longprime on Sunday 25th of November 2012 03:40:47 PM

catahoula · Guru

Hell, they may very well have been screwed close enough to the wall they don't really care whether the company closes or not, given the enlightened business climate over the last term.

You might remember that the young tend to be amoral, lonprime, along with the fact a lobby's most effective when it isn't actively opposed. The AARP can suckup to the entitlement state all it wants but it's members might very well take a clue from that old "put out on an ice floe to expire in unselfish peace" policy that crops up when the seals are too scarce.

biggrin Wisconsin

longprime · Guru

most hugemoungus union will be AARP. biggrin

Better watch out, or we may git you, good. biggrin

pima · Guru

If so longprime, than all the unions did was ship US jobs to Mexico.

Tell me again why unions are a plus in the US? How they are not hurting American workers with their demands?

Honestly, I don't get it!

I am not being antagonistic, I don't get how this helped the unions or workers in the US. Please enlighten me. 18K will be unemployed because the union played chicken. The union HQ employees will still have a job next week.

I have a Masters in Business, Core concentration in Human resources, unions were part of that core. The unions would have forced Hostess to open their books for re-negotiating. They did. The judge, and mediator agreed financially they could not meet the unions demands.

So to me the fault lies with the union. They sold a crock of SHEAAT to their members.

A Mexican company will purchase the brands, and Twinkies will be in our grocery stores 3-6 months from now. They won't pay US taxes, their employees won't pay taxes either. Meanwhile, we as taxpayers will pay for their unemployment, healthcare, etc.

So again, tell me why the employees and taxpayers didn't just get the short end of the stick because the union played chicken!

longprime · Guru

Goodbye Hostess.

My bet is on BIMBO to take over the brands. They already have a distribution and bakeries that can easily add the Hostess-Drake's lines.

Bimbo's Mexican confectionary-baked goods have Hostess Brands beat for sweetness.

longprime · Guru

First, I never said that unions are good or bad.

In our experience, unions have been a negative.

BIMBO owns many brands: http://www.bimbobakeriesusa.com

I don't know if BIMBO-USA is unionized or care. In this household, we are scratch cooks. Except when I am with my mother and will buy processed foods because of her needs. DW is a master baker from experience and her time with corporate Oroweat. Her mother is even a better cook. And I am a master in making Apple Pies. evileye

At one time, unions and protective associations were a necessary part in the development of USA. Unions importance today, is probably very much reduced.

will Hostess's unions kill other Unions, probably not.

-- Edited by longprime on Thursday 22nd of November 2012 09:08:40 PM

busdriver11 · Guru

Frank Lorenzo was not a good guy. He brought about the demise of several airlines, and made a profit selling Eastern's assets to his Texas Air. I don't think the destruction at Eastern Airlines was noticed much by workers at other unions. But it was noticed by airline workers, and I think many have been cognizant of the union's role in the demise of Eastern. Everything is seniority. If your airline goes down, you get nothing, and if you want to stay in the industry (and can get a job), you start out at around 20K working elsewhere, even with 30 years of experience. Management gets a golden parachute and a high starting salary working elsewhere. I think both ALPA and Lorenzo were both determined to bring Eastern down, in a power struggle that benefited nobody (except Lorenzo).

pima · Guru

longprime,

The reason I couldn't care about the preservatives is due to the fact that even though I am a Jersey girl, I probably ate 10 twinkies in my lifetime. In Jersey you are either a Hostess or a Drake family. My family was a Drake's family. My Mom didn't even buy Wondrbread...we ate Pepperidge Farm bread.

I was @ 28 when I found out that Twinkies does not have an expiration date. My brother was the one to show me that fact. If anything that will make you never eat something again, it is the fact that it has no expiration date. Our family joke from that point on was we now know 2 things that will survive a nuclear bomb...roaches and twinkies!

Today's update is the fallacy mediation will actually work. The fact is most finance people are saying that it will be a one day meeting and the next day Hostess will go into liquidation.

Winchester, as far as Eastern, there are some major differences. 1st off for airlines these unions have highly specialized employees. Mechanics and Pilots are not easy to come by, compared to Hostess and line workers. That power will always remain with the airline unions due to their skill set.

What I was inferring regarding the end of unions is more for the line workers...i.e. SEIU, is a great example. The skill set is not something that requires yrs and yrs of training. I would say the same thing about the Electrician or Plumbing union. People tend to accept and pay a higher price if it is something that they themselves do not believe they can do it on their own.

It is the basic premise of business...supply and demand. If you can get Joe Schmoe at a lower cost, for a task that requires a lower level of education/expertise you will take Joe Schmoe. That is where the union representing Hostess made a poor calculated error. They failed IMPO their card holders. They sold them BS. The only truth in what they were selling to them was Hostess can't survive without them. However, Hostess decided using their P and L (profit/loss) statements, that it was best to not survive.

In the end of the day, the problem companies are facing because of unions is the same we are facing with SS and Medi-care regarding our federal budget. The baby boomers are retiring at a higher rate now, and living longer. Their fringe benefits, such as pensions and health care are gobbling up their profits to a point that they will be upside down unless the current employees bend, and accept new terms.

winchester · Guru

Winchester, as far as Eastern, there are some major differences. 1st off for airlines these unions have highly specialized employees. Mechanics and Pilots are not easy to come by, compared to Hostess and line workers. That power will always remain with the airline unions due to their skill set.

I think that's a distinction without a difference. skill sets or not, the union at Eastern did not believe management, it saw managememnt as the bad guy; mean, uncaring, just out for profit, only interested in squeezing the little guy, oppressing the poor worker to line its own pockets. it's what they do. The world is seen as a zero sum game, where benefits to some come only at equal expense to others. It's a narrow minded world view that, whether its twinkies or airlines, in the end, in both cases, cost the union members their livelihoods.

-- Edited by winchester on Tuesday 20th of November 2012 06:50:14 AM

longprime · Guru

I couldn't give a rats arse about preservatives.

With them preservatives, you wouldn't have Twinkies. Which reminded to post a complaint to our regional tortilla maker-I couldn't find their preservative free tortilla-they not going to like my post because it was done on fb. evileye

winchester · Guru

Hostess and the union played chicken, and I think they really believed Hostess would not close their doors. The fact that they did begs the question will other unions now think twice in the future regarding their demands? Will they believe that the business is willing to walk away from the table?

If that were likely then it would have happened after Easter Airlines shut down.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

Card check will happen in second Obama term. Just ask union boss, Trumka, who says Obama owes the unions "big". http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/11/trumka-card-check-will-happen-in-second-obama-term-148483.html The unions will be bigger and stronger. You watch.

longprime · Guru

I think the unions either overplayed or the employees figured that a nonunion operation will result in a more stable job, meaning a bankrupcy would mean contracts can be voided, and the new company can hire without a union. This would be much easier than decertification.

And yes, closind down will kill the unions.

When DW was line manager at Drakes, she would never know which union would affect her line, even though the line workers belonged to a single union.

-- Edited by longprime on Monday 19th of November 2012 10:52:14 AM

pima · Guru

longprime,

No insult, but you are missing the big picture.

Hostess shutting their doors instead of giving into the Unions, will leave a question mark for all union employees regardless which union they belong to for their careers.

If Hostess did this, what about other companies...electricians, metal, etc.?

My question has and is all about did Hostess just kill the unions? How many union employees will now fold regaridng demands after seeing Hostess close their doors? That is the real question of my post. Again, did Hostess just kill the unions.

I couldn't give a rats arse about preservatives.

-- Edited by pima on Monday 19th of November 2012 10:09:29 AM