Every state has the fuel additive, CA just has another level. That is why you hear winter and summer crude oil. It is for the engines. You have it your car in OR like I have it in my car in VA, it is not CA specific.
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Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
BP had a refinery fire. We only have 1 refinery in the PNW. Gasoline had to come from CA and reallocation by barge/tanker. Hurricanes and poor weather, east of the Rockies. have very little if any affect on PNW fuel prices.
I'm guessing that our refiner pushed up their date conversion(guess) because we've had a prolonged dry season. Again, out here we can forecast the weather with fairly good accuracy. We don't have the fuel additive component and refining problems that CA has.
I don't know anything about next May, but this past May gas was over $4 because we are at the end of the pipeline-ship and refinery problems. Most of crude comes from AK and if there is pipeline issue, we see the results.
That is before you add in the cost to buy a new battery when it dies.
Here's the cost:
The cost of the pack varies with the year of the Prius. Replacement batteries for the 2001-2003 Prius cost $2,299, and those for the more common 2004-2009 model currently run $2,588.
Labor costs could total several hundred more dollars if you have to replace the pack, for whatever reason.
The break even point depends heavily on gas prices, as longprime suggests.
But, the good news for Prius owners, from the same article, is...
"The battery pack in any hybrid Toyota is warranted either for 10 years or 150,000 miles (in states with California emissions laws) or 8 years or 100,000 miles in all other states."
And, he adds, "There's no pro-rating at all. The battery will be replaced at no cost if necessary during the warranty period."
As for the effect on used Prius prices, there doesn't appear to be a discount for older Priuses based on concerns about the life of the rechargeable battery pack.
Indeed, Toyota says the battery pack is one of the least-frequently replaced items across all Prius models. And some proportion of the packs it has to replace haven't failed, but were damaged in collisions or other accidents.
But this, by longprime, if true and not tongue in cheek (which seems to be often the case with longprime), is baffling in a cut off you nose to spite your face way:
Personally, I want to have gas above $4.- our Prius gets closer to the breakeven point compared to a standard Camry's cost to own.
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It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” – Mark Twain
should have bought BTU, Wed Oct 16. I'd see today for the quick gain and in anticipation MR is going to do as well in foreign policy. Coal is dead. The edison light bulb is dead. Longlive nuclear and the LED.
Gas is 8cents lower since last week, mid Ore. Maybe BP's refinery is now running fullout where this spring it was shutdown. It is a relief to finally be below $4 after 6months.
That is before you add in the cost to buy a new battery when it dies.
I agree we pay very little for gasoline, and I think that is why many Europeans are shocked we complain about 4 bucks a gallon. I lived in the UK in the 90's and I am pretty sure it was equivalent to what we are paying now 20 yrs later. When we were in Italy 5 yrs ago, I believe the gas prices were equivalent to 8-9 bucks a gallon.
I don't see MR sticking his fingers into anything because it will probably take him 1 term just to get the oil leases back up to the level it was when Bush left office.
I also agree that the total miles driven is constant and fuel efficiency has increased, which brings us back to than why are gas prices at the current level. Theoretically, with more fuel efficient cars on the road today than 4 yrs ago, we should have more supply and less demand. When you have an abundance of supply over demand prices fall.
Finally, the reason we need to become more dependent on our own resources compared to OPEC is due to another factor. India and China. These 2 countries are demanding more oil for their citizens at a higher rate than 4 yrs ago. Their demand will continue to increase at a steady rate, thus they are driving up the global demand and cost of oil.
As far as off shore drilling, I understand your position of cost, but that doesn't mean these companies aren't willing to spend the money going after that oil. That's their choice. As Obama stated what Obama's administration did was revoke those licenses because the companies did not drill there, now they are re-issuing those permits again, but at a slower rate. Hence, the demand for the licenses still exist, yet our govt is slowing down the supply.
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Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
Had to replace a Honda engine at 80K. Used engine + labor $2K.
Each of us have our own buyer's decision. Our decision was based on longterm expections and thus we also replaced windows, added home insulation, upgraded heating. Your expectations are expected to be different. Cost of a replacement battery is relatively expensive, but as yet unquantified. The 97 Camry has 200k+ miles and going strong but it has had a transmission rebuild earlier. Toyota is planning to move hybrid manufacturing to USA-more jobs but the economics of yen-dollar and USA labor advantages are forcing Toyota to move assembly and parts manufacturing.
And again I reiterate I want to see higher energy prices. It will get the Government out of the market and let market forces dictate where business should allocated their resources. If you want to use coal as a fuel, pray that oil and gas goes up and not because of MR's interference. If you want USA to become energy independent, pray that fuel goes up so that energy companies can make $$ and conservation becomes an attractive alternative to consumption.
I voted for Ron Paul.
-- Edited by longprime on Monday 22nd of October 2012 10:01:18 AM
longprime, summer requires a different process and additives than winter requires and that is one of the reasons every fall the prices drop. It is like the weather...summer will be warmer than winter. Summer means hurricane season, and concerns from NOAA regarding how many TS, Hurricanes will hit that yr. It is a speculation traders market when it comes to oil. The market looks at these issues, not employment when they buy/sell.
I am not trying to be rude, but if you think that come May we will be down to 2.75 a gallon without new drilling prospects, you are wrong. Many of the west coast states pushed up their conversion dates (additives) early to lower the pain at the pump.
It is not a supply and demand issue that I think you are perceiving regarding prices currently. It is the fact that winter gasoline is cheaper than summer and the 8 cents per gallon drop illustrates just that.
Obama is selling BS when he tries to pin gas prices on what the Bush Administration left him regarding the economy. He cancelled those leases and commotity traders understood that fact. That is what drove up prices...not unemployment.
Show me one way that the economy, as PBO stated in the last debate is the reason why we are paying 2X as much as we did 4 yrs ago, impacted gas prices.
I mean that in sincerity. Explain to me how you feel he had no control over gas prices doubling. I am willing to read it out, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but as a business major (undergrad and grad), I don't see the logic in your premise currently when you support him in this issue of gas prices.
-- Edited by pima on Monday 22nd of October 2012 09:39:11 AM
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Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
I have to admit, I still have problems wrapping my head around him saying that because of unemployment this is why the gas prices are higher. That is not how it works. Higher employment would equal more demand and thus the price would increase. Lower employment would equate to less spending, and lower demand. If you are unemployed you aren't running out to the movies or for dinner, hence, spending less on gas since you aren't driving to the mall every Sat. and going out for Chinese food on Thursday night.
When checkbooks tighten like they have over the past 4 yrs., consumers do it all in one trip to save gas. For example: Go to church on Sunday a.m. Church is 10 miles a way, Lowes is 3 miles further out and the grocery store is in between the two of these places. Instead of doing the Lowe's and grocery store on other days, they combine it all together for Sunday.
Again, maybe just me, I don't own a Prius. I do get 33 mpg for my Pontiac, and even today I have to take DS to school and the grocery store, which is on the route to his school. I am not going to drive to store, and than go back out again to take him to school. I will wait and do it in one trip.
In NoVA we have what is called SLUG lines, basically legalized hitch-hiking for mass transportation re: HOV. The fact that when gas prices go up, there are fewer drivers to pick up slugs illustrates how many are doing exactly what I just described. They will let someone pick up the gas tab.
Again, to sit here and say prices went up because of the unemployment rate as Obama stated last week is wrong when you talk about supply and demand. It just isn't the way it works. Demand did not go up when people are pinching pennies, it went down. In PBO's scenario prices should have dropped drastically due to the demand. It didn't because of the fact that he fulfilled his promise of drilling to the left, and now we are all paying the price for that promise. Of course, he may pay the ultimate price of losing a 2nd term.
Remember gas prices are just the tip of the iceberg. Food prices are where we are at because they also take a hit. Products like, Milk, bread, eggs, meat are trucked to us...citizens may have purchased a more efficient car, but trucks to get Milk, Bread, eggs, etc. are still gas guzzlers and that cost is pushed off to us as consumers. Schools in our area have stopped some after school buses. Seriously, if the bus has to turn left out of the HS, there is no after school bus, turns right there is a bus. Wonder why one of the reasons the PO is in the red and want to reduce to 5 days a week mail service...how much do you think it costs to deliver mail regarding gas prices? Granted, the USPS is bloated regarding administration costs, but still gas prices are a factor.
Nothing Obama said makes sense regarding why gas prices are higher now since he took office.
-- Edited by pima on Monday 22nd of October 2012 08:45:39 AM
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Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
I have to say Obama illustrated he didn't understand business regarding supply and demand.
Oh he understands just fine. The problem is that he is afflicted with the disease of liberalism which is caused by the virus of illusion of control in which the world is perceived, and visions of the future are imagined, based on a fantasy about what human nature should be rather than what it actually is. A key component of that fantasy is that government policy can be used as a tool to shape, lead, control, fundamentally transform human nature into the imagined ideal.
A common strategy in the face of disappointment, struggle, and other uncomfortable feelings is to try and pinpoint what we did wrong to create the situation. The idea is, “if I caused it, I can fix it,” which fosters a sense of power rather than powerlessness. It makes sense that we would search for any toehold that allows us to rise above our difficulty, but the problem with this strategy is that it has us constantly surveying the land for our shortcomings. It can create a “blame the victim” mentality and/or compound whatever difficulty we are experiencing by laying harsh criticism on top of what is already a painful situation. We might feel like we have a better handle on the problem, but now we also feel ashamed for having the problem to begin with.
This belief is evident in many liberal arguments. Whereas the conservative view, illustrated nowhere more clearly than in the The Federalist Papers and in the Constitution, accepts human nature as it is and seeks to thwart oppression and abuse by the powerful against the less powerful through a system of checks and balances of distributed power which pits ambition against ambition, passion against passion.
-- Edited by winchester on Monday 22nd of October 2012 07:40:59 AM
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It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” – Mark Twain
Personally, I want to have gas above $4.- our Prius gets closer to the breakeven point compared to a standard Camry's cost to own.
High fuel costs makes oil from Canada sensible and for building a pipeline, unless US domestic crude becomes plentiful enough to make even Canadian high cost crude inefficent. High fuel costs make alternative energy programs more cost effective. High fuel costs makes USA fuel relatively cheap to what our economic competitors must pay for that energy.
In VA we are lower than the national avg. I have to say Obama illustrated he didn't understand business regarding supply and demand.
The gas prices are going down again the refineries have completed their switch from summer to winter gasoline, and no hurricanes took out oil platforms like they did yrs ago. It has nothing to do with back in 08 the economy was so bad nobody was buying gas, thus the prices were lower. Theoretically in his scenario with 8% unemployment for 43 months, we should still be at 1.88. The fact is we are higher because of what MR stated, leasing under his administration went down.
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Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
When that good Republican Lincoln said that we should have a intercontinental railroad, Congress said OK, but you must build inorder to get the land grants. Failure to build, ment no money or land. Homesteaders had to develop a portion of land within 2 years or lose the grant. Land mineral rights had to be developed or be re-issued for claim.
I think you will find that the exploratory companies rather risk their money and OPM's, redrilling their old wells or on rights that have proven reserves but until now unextractable, using fracturing and horizontal drill technology. Why drill in deep water when there are enormnous chances and costs. If you want drilling on leases, let oil prices float rather than to use the national reserves that many politicians were clamoring for in early 2012. Our local water association says that we will give you a water right for $M and charge you monthly for that right whether you use any water-And if you do not hook to the system within 5 years, we will re-issue that water share to someone else.
The more MR speaks, I see more socialism and market distortions.
The Prize, Daniel Yerkin, describes the rises and falls of oil.
Gold, Barnard Bernstein, describes the rise and falls of gold. Queen Isabela and Ferdinand went looking for gold because gold was scarce and valuable but too much of the stuff eventually broke Spain's wealth.
Export coal, iron ore, oil, and other commodities have fallen dramatically this year. Because there is more of it? or because there is less demand? Either way, this and the next President should keep his fingers out of the markets other than to shape long term goals. MR sounds like he would like to interfere with demand where BushW wanted to fiddle with supply. If you would look at some figures, one may find that the total miles driven is fairly level but the average fuel efficiency of the vehicle has gone up dramatically.
-- Edited by longprime on Sunday 21st of October 2012 02:39:37 PM
"Gas locally here ranges from $4.79 to $5.39. I am sitting across from a 76 Station in Santa Monica where the sign says 5.39 unleaded, but goes up to 5.69 for Supreme. "
Gas locally here ranges from $4.79 to $5.39. I am sitting across from a 76 Station in Santa Monica where the sign says 5.39 unleaded, but goes up to 5.69 for Supreme.