pima="Yes, payroll is a both side of the fence pays, but for the small business owner it can be a make or break when it comes to tax rates."
All the more reason for SinglePayer. Take the insurance burden off of the employer and you may find that the employee take more ownership for their health and relieves the burden of the employer to allocate funds for greater efficiency.
I prefer the CNN commentary, and MSNBC seems to have the best sound on my tv.
Btw, despite what you'll hear , Mitt won the debate tonight by being more likeable.
Ironic, isn't it ?
-- Edited by hope on Tuesday 16th of October 2012 09:36:36 PM
Actually the DC weather in the summer is frustrating...it always rains on the weekend!
I agree and again disagree regarding Medicare. I think MR needs to come in and say on Day 1, MOCs this is my agenda, and you all need to get it done now.
I would much rather have him saying to my MOC this is my framework, now do your job and get it done. I think he will do exactly that, however the question will be how partisan this will become. I hope that the D's control one house, by doing so this has a better chance of success.
Yes, I know that is the same with out current situation, but there are differences. If the Senate stays D, and we have an R there is veto power, currently that is not true. Secondly, if the presidency goes back to R, and add in the 10 election, they know their jobs are on the line because voters are no starting to illustrate their frustration using their voting power. If they are smart they will say this really started over Obamacare, over not passing a budget for 3 yrs. , over sequestration, and Libya was just the icing.
As for health insurance. I agree I think the avg wage slave knows this, and since small business owners are the thrust of employment currently, these people work in small companies. They are not employed by AT&T or Apple where thousands work in a building. This is a water cooler topic. They probably work in an office that might have 50-100 employees. You know the type of company...they still have holiday office parties in the office. The boss is not MR/MS so and so, but called John or Jane. They are now wondering one thing...how do John/Jane file their taxes? They are counting how many employees are there, 51 means by law the owners will need to look at health insurance in a different perspective depending on how they file.
Yes, payroll is a both side of the fence pays, but for the small business owner it can be a make or break when it comes to tax rates.
__________________
Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
You are lot closer to DC than where I live. We didn't like the DC area-weather is funny-rains in the summer and clear in the winter.
PBO needed to get Medicare done ASAP, and he took the easiest way - Romneycare-Heritage Foundation format rather than singlepayer. BushW tried in 2005 with his "Mandate" to change entitlements but his own party shot him down and he had a Republican Congress, which is pretty much the same republican Congress that we have today.
Romney needs to make clear that he will have some form of comprehensive Medicare-Social Security Reform. We must have a coherent Medicare and Social Security strategy. I don't think that the common Republican knows that going back to the old system is a faster way to bankrupcy. I do think that the average wage slave knows that their wages are being hampered by rising health insurance premiums to the employer. As for payroll taxes, whether you be an employee or owner, you still pay the payroll taxes.
-- Edited by longprime on Monday 15th of October 2012 03:18:07 PM
I am not disagreeing longprime, just illustrating that the media is making such a huge issue about the lack of "we will do this or that", yet they forget a lot of Obama's promises were never fulfilled from his campaign stump speeches.
I agree the Medicare is a big deal, but Obama and the D's decided that instead of dealing with areas that will be bankrupt sooner than later at this rate, they decided to ram down healthcare reform. The issue that has always bothered me about the reform was it actually is a win-win politically for Obama due to the implementation time frame, which is after the 12 election. If he wins it will stay in place, if he loses and MR can't overhaul it fast enough, than MR is in a bad position politically, especially if employers start dropping health insurance in their benefit packages.
Most people do not realize @30% is what employers pay out on top of the salary for benefits. If they want to cut their bottom line they are going to drop health care. It would probably be cheaper to reduce full time employees to 30 hrs and hire another part time employee than to carry health insurance.
As far as what do I think Romney will do if he doesn't have both houses, I think he is going to sit down the R's and say get to work, swallow your pride, work with the D's. He will probably tell the D's that they don't want a repeat of 10 and Americans are tired of these antics, so if they want to keep their jobs, get to work, swallow your pride and work with the R's.
Naive, I know, but my hope is MR will take a page from Reagan's playbook and reach out to Reid on day one. I feel that Obama never reached out from the get go and it showed. Remember the uproar over Fox News, and basically saying they weren't news. Whether you think they are Faux News or Fox News, the fact is you can add both CNN and MSNBC ratings together and still not beat their ratings. If that is the case, why go down that path, unless you believe it is due to the fact that you are President and what you say goes.
Every new president will have mis-steps in the beginning, I expect Romney will too, but at a certain point you have to own it. The fact that Biden and Obama don't own these current mis-steps is troubling. The fact that Biden said Ryan voted for 2 wars, but forgot to say he also voted for it too is not being as transparent as they claim.
The fact that Biden tried to demonize Romney about paying his fair share, but now the media has researched it to realize MR made @18 million, but kept only 10 million for a 42% donation/taxes rate is creating a fallacy that he is a fat cat and doesn't care about the poor or middle class. How much did Biden give to charity from his and Dr. Jill Biden's income? $316. That tells me he wants the govt in our pockets and he thinks he actually does pay enough in taxes, thus no need to help. What if there were MR's that donated millions to charities directly? How would that 47% survive? As a Catholic, when the offering is brought to the altar it is the sweetest time because little kids bring canned/boxed food for the shelters. What if we all said I am paying my share to the govt let them take care of it? That is what Biden is doing, but it is not what MR is doing. Can you imagine the food pantries in towns like Detroit, or NYC?
The funny thing is the Mormon church does tithe, I believe it is 10%. However, in the Catholic Church we have Sunday offerings. $300 bucks to the church is @ 6 dollars a week. We have 5 in my family, we do not make as much as the Bidens and just to my Catholic church we give 500 a yr. We also donate to Goodwill constantly. My donations to them avg @3K, and I take the 1/3 cost method. I donate everything from clothing to furniture. You can't tell me Jill Biden doesn't clean out her closet 2x a yr like most women, and I am pretty sure like MO with her $400 sneakers Goodwill, Battered Women's Shelter, Dress for Success, heck even Airmen's Attic wouldn't want their stuff. Airmen's Attic, is a quasi Goodwill. They not only re-sell items, but if you are below a certain rank and married, every month you can come into the store and get @6 items for free. I bring them up because MO and JB have said the military family is their platform. Maybe they donate anonymously, and don't take the deduction, but than the question is why did they take $316 in deductions at all?
I am tired of them playing the game about the 47%, or share the wealth, when in reality they are paying the same rate as MR, but again for them they think their helping the poor begins and ends with govt tax dollars. MR believes it only begins there and ends with donating more personally. To me that is the difference between D's and R's. Studies have been done, and on a whole R's pay the same rate, but donate more to charities than D's.
Look at Pelosi now that is a true hypocrite! Take my tax dollars, and let me use them to an insane level for me. I.E. Needed a bigger airplane, hundreds of dollars per week for flowers in her office, insane amounts of water bottles (I think it is @300 a week), etc. Yet, let me tell the Americans the R's are evil. When Boehner took over, that part of the budget dropped by tens of thousands, he wasn't shuttling his staff back to OH weekly on the larger aircraft, he went back to the smaller one.
Unfortunately many hear the talk, but never look at their walk.
-- Edited by pima on Monday 15th of October 2012 12:47:08 PM
__________________
Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
Gitmo: No state or munipality wanted any of the "detains" either for holding or for trials. So if closing Gitmo detainment facility, where would the holdees go to? Establishing Gitmo was a Big Mistake-They didn't think it through.
Repeal of the tax cuts: Talk to Congress and specifically the House where tax and budgets law must start. As our Capitalist system was collapsing in late 2008, Congress and W saw fit to do the TARP. But TARP only stabliized the financial system-the public taxpayer/wage slave could have collapsed making TARP a failure, and the collapse of Capitalism.
We are not in Iraq today, per agreement made by President Bush. PBO is taking undue credit for not being in Iraq.
8%+ unemployement- Best thing that ever happened in making American products more competitive and controlling Unions. Bad for the deficit/tax collections, but maybe very good in the long term. American workers can truly see that they are wage slaves and need to be more entreprenieral and self-sufficient. So if Romney wins, and without both Congressional Houses, just what compromises do you think Romney will make to get things done when he is running to reduce the deficit and no new taxes?
Not sorry that I mentioned the Hill. But the Capitol Building is a Big Building. Getting Medicare reform along with financial reform are BIG Deals. More probably needs to be done on Medicare, but we have gotten people to think about what can be done. If MR, Only gets a balanced budget by end 2016, that would be enough.
I am not disagreeing about a 3rd party, but the fact is we don't have one.
Obama promised in his 1st 100 days Gitmo would be closed. Is it closed?
He promised to repeal tax cuts? Did he?
He promised as a candidate we would not be in Iraq today.
He said if in 3 yrs if unemployment was above 8% he didn't deserve a 2nd chance?
These were his promises, anyone throwing stones at R/R regarding their no plan position, IMPO needs to hold that stone because our current President promised a lot and did not deliver.
I don't want to hear about the Hill and the WH conflicting. Obama had his 1st 2 yrs with Dem control in both Houses. 2010 election highlights the frustration voters felt.
__________________
Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
bus= "These guys all have plans before they get elected. And after. How many of them ever come to pass? I don't think you can elect someone on their plans or their catering to groups for votes. I just don't buy that much of what they promise will ever happen. But you have to respect someone who has given their ideas a lot of thought and is willing to offer solutions. We have plenty of problems and it's much more useful to attempt to find solutions than to merely criticize. "
So if they plans fail to come to pass, What happens? The 2001 tax cuts that are again up for renewal has benefited USA, What? The 2003 tax cuts has benefited USA, What and with the then 2 Wars, only to show deficits? Romney/Ryan/Republicans have a lot riding on their tax-budget plan. WE were fooled by BushW 2x, but we only count as 1, and if we are to be fooled by R/R/R, they will be burnt toast in 2014 and beyond.
Like I said earlier it is refreshing for them to be honest and say here is the framework, but unlike this administration we are going to get the MOCs in the room from both sides and let them fill out the finer details.
The fact is a President is a President not because of the popular vote, but the electoral vote. MOCs have a better pulse on the ground of how constituents are feeling and what they need/want.
That being said, I don't put much faith in them either since it has been 3 yrs since they passed a budget! Which IMPO also speaks volumes of this administrations ability to lead.
As I watched the two of them, I imagined that they were at a table with other leaders, would this be the person I would want speaking on behalf of our country? Biden's attitude of smiling, smirking, interrupting, throwing his hands up made me say NO, I don't want him 1 heart beat away from sitting down with leaders we aren't seeing eye to eye with, but have strong military power.
I would want Ryan who listened, didn't interrupt, showed respect and than responded with a calm demeanor and tone.
I understand this was a debate for their careers that included hot topic subjects, but as a VP or G forbid they become President, those debates they will have in the future impact my life, my children's lives and every American when it comes to how foreign leaders see us. I don't want someone that can't act mature and rational, 1 heart beat away from touching my life personally.
__________________
Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
"Ryan's plan has too many moving parts that must happen in precise sequence and coordination. Nice plan, but ... if anything that gums up the sequence, the plan will fall apart and we will be in deep doo-doo"
These guys all have plans before they get elected. And after. How many of them ever come to pass? I don't think you can elect someone on their plans or their catering to groups for votes. I just don't buy that much of what they promise will ever happen. But you have to respect someone who has given their ideas a lot of thought and is willing to offer solutions. We have plenty of problems and it's much more useful to attempt to find solutions than to merely criticize.
"Ok, this is going to sound strange, but I can't shake the feeling that, juxtaposed to Biden's emotional display, Ryan made an impression on people. He did on me, and I doubt I am alone. He treated Biden with respect, though clearly thinking he was off the rails half the time, and though somewhat nervous, was not flustered by Biden's embarrassing display. Hevcame off as extremely likeable, as well as smart. We'll see what the polls say next week, but I somehow feel his showing is going to bolster the Romney upswing."
I totally agree. Ryan came across as classy, thoughtful, brilliant and likeable. Biden came across as a rude, obnoxious ass. I thought he was likeable before this debate. After watching only 10 minutes of it, he just seemed like a jerk, losing me when he could have had valid points.
Ok, this is going to sound strange, but I can't shake the feeling that, juxtaposed to Biden's emotional display, Ryan made an impression on people. He did on me, and I doubt I am alone. He treated Biden with respect, though clearly thinking he was off the rails half the time, and though somewhat nervous, was not flustered by Biden's embarrassing display. Hevcame off as extremely likeable, as well as smart. We'll see what the polls say next week, but I somehow feel his showing is going to bolster the Romney upswing.
They are saying here is our broad base plan and will leave it to the Hill like Tip and Reagan. They aren't playing the game like Obama with stump promises.
~~~ Gitmo will be closed in 100 days ~ Am I missing something, isn't Gitmo still opened?
~~~ Out of Iraq ~ Aren't we still there?
~~~ 8% unemployment he doesn't deserve a second term according to PBO ~ Asking for a 2nd term.
I like the fact that they are saying everything is on the table and won't promise squat, compared to PBO promising tax cuts, closing Gitmo, leaving Iraq. Healthcare occurred by shoving it down our throats to keep a promise and the Dems paid that price in 10.
Is there something so wrong about saying: this is the frame work, you guys work it out?
If your answer is yes that is a problem, please go back to 08 and tell me besides healthcare what campaign promise PBO kept?
__________________
Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
Ryan's plan has too many moving parts that must happen in precise sequence and coordination. Nice plan, but ... if anything that gums up the sequence, the plan will fall apart and we will be in deep doo-doo. It has happened before with a simpler plan.
Liked how Ryan related Romney's visit to a fellow parishner's car tragedy. Nice of him to guarantee their kid's college education. Something that LDS'ers do. I would look for a Presidential Romney to strong arm weathy and better off Americans to do the same-Buffett Rule. Voluntary paternalism. He's living in a dream world.
Back on topic, what I found strange was how fast he threw the State Dept and Intelligence community under the bus. Overall, I think Biden won in some areas and Ryan won in some areas. I think the positive for RR ticket was Ryan appeared Presidential compared to people like Quayle and Palin. The opposition wanted to paint that ticket that they were weak on foreign policy, but Ryan appeared to have a strong handle on foreign policy, and actually because of Benghazi it is PBO that appears to be weak in this arena.
I think Biden won on the abortion aspect with swing voters, and he had made a strong point that 1 or 2 SCOTUS justices could be replaced in the next 4 yrs.
The one thing I wish Ryan would have said to Biden was: Mr. Biden, I am not sure what is so funny that you can't stop laughing or smiling when we are discussing 23 million people without jobs, or the terrorists attacking our embassy in Libya.
Overall to me it was a draw. Biden did his job to motivate Dems Ryan did his job to appear that as a 1 heartbeat away candidate people would feel comfortable with him as a VP.
I think if people watched afterwards when the families came up to the stage, it probably also helped Ryan's personality issues, i.e. wooden. His kids jumping into the chairs and seeing him talking to the Biden side tapping his watch and touching his sons head. We, as parents all knew what he was saying...this one is way past his bedtime. It made him look like us when we would say to people, we have to get out of here we need to get the kids to bed!
Being fair, I think Biden also showed his soft side too when he spent time introducing Ryan's Mom to his family one by one. However, that has not ever been an issue with Amtrack Joe.
__________________
Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
Off topic, but I laughed this a.m. when I was listening to 2 callers on Brian & Bryan (wmal.com)
Caller 1: He said he believed Joe will do great and WIN because he makes gaffes when it is off the cuff and not scripted, thus because of Joe practicing for the last 6 days this will not occur.
Caller 2: Pointed out that like it was for Obama there is no teleprompter, he actually will have to speak off the cuff.
My laughter was an Obama/Biden voter acknowledges Biden's flaws, but doesn't understand how debates work. He may know the questions prior, hence he would do fine, but they don't understand Ryan will be able to respond and that is where Joe could get in trouble.
Ryan is not Palin, this is not the NY Giants playing NC Panthers. This is NY Giants playing the Eagles.
Ryan's problem is he can be wooden like Romney, and he could appear to be pompous like Gore.
If I was a campaign advisor for Romney/Ryan, I would try to make him human. No eye rolling, smirking like Obama or sighing like Gore, in other words the feeling of some form of bullying.
I think the reason Obama was seen as losing that debate was not just issues, which he did, but the looks he gave that people could not get over. The smirks, not looking at Romney, the comment to Jim Lehrer, etc. People probably could have accepted his positions, they just couldn't/wouldn't accept his attitude.
Ryan can't fall into that trap if they want to continue this rebound. They need voters to like him and trust him as much as Biden, if not more.
Joe is liked, even with his gaffes, he must acknowledge that fact.
__________________
Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
Saw this on my Comcast home page http://xfinity.comcast.net/slideshow/news-VPDebateWatch/
5 things to watch for the VP debate 1. Fireworks 2. Questionable claims Obama didn't clear up in his debate. ~~~Biden has said he won't let any questionable claims go unchallenged, and Democratic allies say it will be important to prevent Ryan from glossing over controversial policy details. 3. Medicare 4. Can Ryan handle Foreign Policy 5. 4 yrs down the road ~~~ If either candidate wants to go for 16 this is important for their future.
I happen to agree, and I think if Biden doesn't gaffe, the edge IMPO goes to Biden. I think he can get the swing voters to swing back again.
The curve ball in this situation is the Raddatz situation. Will she now be easier on Ryan because of the fact that she is now news regarding her connection to PBO...he attended her wedding, her ex husband was apptd FCC chairman by PBO. She may try to bend over backwards for Ryan as to appear that she is not playing favorites to Obama/Biden campaign. Similar to a parent being told a certain child is their favorite, and how they now try to prove that they aren't.
I hope she asks about Libya or at least about the U.S. Embassy employee assassinated this morning on his way to work in Yemen regarding foreign policy.
__________________
Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
Obama said Joe just needs to be Joe. I really hope so. If the American people knew what an idiot they have just one breath away from the Presidency, I think they would be very concerned.
Biden is not known as an intellectual or a great debater compared to Ryan so both sides have risks.
Obama/Biden's risk is Romney/Ryan got a big bump out of the debates even with the new unemoloyment numbers. If Biden does not win, the swing voters might feel that with both MR and Ryan they seem more on the ball compared to the current administration.
Many voters still are learning about Ryan, but from the media's perspective since he was selected he has been described as a guy that is dedicated as an MOC. Stories, such as he does not rent an apt in DC, but instead sleeps in his office and works all night reading everything and anything he can. Biden winning or the appearance of a tie, IMPO would decimate the Romney campaign. Their momentum from LW's debate would be gone in a second.
There is always the joke that VPs don't matter because all they do is attend state funerals, but I think for once many people are torn between the two Pres. candidates and the VP might be the make or break for the swing voters.
Obama compared to McCain was always the favorite candidate. Biden did his job, and Palin didn't for their candidates. That job was don't hurt the candidate's chances. McCain didn't vett Palin enough, he wanted a woman, and that was his mistake. I think Romney learned from McCain's mistake. He selected the VP candidate that brought enthusiasm from the base and one that woildn't say things like I can see Russia from my window. McCain believed VPs don't matter and he paid the price of the election for that assumption.
The thing is for Obama the bloom is off the flower now, thus to me why this debate might actually be the make or break for both.
So the question remains who has more to lose if they lose?
__________________
Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
