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Post Info TOPIC: US Ambassador to Libya and several staffers killed by Muslim extremists


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RE: US Ambassador to Libya and several staffers killed by Muslim extremists
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Glad to!

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Giving it a rest, pima.  Why don't you do the same.



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Sorry for diverting again.

Jazzy,

Guess what? When Bullet was serving ADAF, and my kids moved every 2 yrs or so, we too were paying Federal taxes. In essence we were paying our own salary! What was your point? You have the right to speak out publicly?

Great, now that is settled and agreed upon, you do understand military members do not have that option like you regarding free speech? They salute sharply and keep their mouths shut.

So when you state it is your right because you pay taxes, please remember they pay taxes too and gave up that right so you could have your right. Are you willing to sacrifice the life of your child for my child? SLS and I are/were. I will be kissing my child goodbye in 14 days, and don't expect to see him for at least 18 months, so he can make sure you can tell me it is your right as a taxpayer.

Again, instead of your position of IT IS MY RIGHT, I PAY TAXES, remember families are paying that price so you can have that right.

That is what they are doing now when it comes to the mid-east. They are placing their lives on the line to guarantee that civilians around the world can scream from their rooftops regarding their beliefs.



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Sounds like an Onion spoof but...

Possibly I'm over simplyfying but it doesn't seem like anything that can't be fixed by a little leaning from her husband. Your and my firefighter, police officer, etc., is most likely a product of standards adjustment.

That we're posting bs on the internet, connections secure from burglars setting fires, proves the old standards were unnecessarly tight.



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Huge health issues. Even if ObamaCare does not come about, Some one will eventually pay $$$$ for this problem. The  timeline to see tangible results will be decades. ... Reminds of the movie, WallyE



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Apparently so. The First Lady has some body image issues of her own , I would venture.. I still don't understand why obesity is her number 1 concern, considering her bully pulpit. It's pretty well documented that socio-economic status equates to obesity - so if her husband takes office for another 4 years her quest is a waste of time.

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You know... when the crap's hitting the fan like it's been over the last few days, I'd take a slightly overweight soldier over no soldier at all. (Very likely a sentiment shared by the president at the moment but the milks spilled, no putting it back.)

The adminstration is going to have to deal with the fallout from this - interesting times to be sure, since all those old criticisms of GW are sure to be played back for an audience that cut their milk teeth as performers - which is why I would like to see it get back on topic, but...

Did the first lady really classify obesity as a pressing national security threat?



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Why do you need to argue when your life is not touched?

 

I get to argue because I'm a citizen and a taxpayer and I have a right to my opinion on an open discussion forum.  

This all came up because you felt free to express your opinion about MO and her appearance on Dr. Oz.   I disagree with the notion that what she said should fry anyone's brain....it didn't come out of thin air....it's a concern expressed by members of the military for pete's sake.  That's my opinion, and I backed it up.

I'm sure there are forums where everyone is related to the military and almost never would anyone ever disagree with you, but I didn't think this forum was intended to be like that. 

That said, I'm more than willing to give it a rest. 

  

    



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Yep, super awesome...prayers tonight going out to their families from military families while they watch to see if their loved ones are safe. That is what is important.

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We should probably just let it go, Pima.  It's not an issue that most people are going to get, and it will likely just drive us crazy.  Your family has to take the chances that your son is on the line, now that hubby is retired, and mine just get the honor of paying his debt, instead of serving his country.  

On the good news front, son was just offered a $45,000 job before taxes.  On the bad news front, he would now make $3000 below (before taxes) what the federal government is expecting in payback.  So that's great.  Literally every dime he makes this year will go pay back the government and will have to borrow from us to make up his shortfall, or if he wants to even go out and buy a slice of pizza.  So much for being an adult.  He will be living at home for the forseeable future.  

And the middle east is on fire, with military cutbacks.  Super awesome!  

 

 



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OBTW I forgot to say I am damn proud and have no regrets.


Why can't you just say Pima and SLS "THANK YOU"

Why do you need to argue when your life is not touched?


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Jazzy - 

I know you are not addressing me, but since I have a horse in this race, I am responding.  

Navy ROTC cut my kid loose with 3 weeks to go before graduation because he was 7 pounds over their BMI/height weight charts.  Not because he wasn't physically fit.  

This is all good until you realize that they are charging him $143,000 plus interest because he suddenly was not in standards by this measurement.  

Few employers do that to their employees when cutting them loose.  

The bigger question I have is - how can you say that a 120 pound petite female is in better shape than a 200 pound muscular male? Who can carry a fallen soldier on his back - the male or the female?  I know I couldn't.  



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I will bow out now. My meter is off the rails.

When your child or your spouse has to pull out someone out of the ditch than come talk to me. My DH and now my DS is in that position. I couldn't give a rats arse if they are 5, 10 or 20 lbs overweight. Pull my damn son out of the water when they punch!

MY kids life is on the line...not yours. Do you even know what a PFT is?

Please don't tell me about Eisenhower, honestly I wasn't alive when Eisenhower was President.

Plus now you went from obesity re:NSA to spending. Talk about jumping!

You jump because you don't know the military. You don't have a defense when it comes to the AD world. You bought into what was being sold by the media.

Just remember it was Bullet out on the front line from 1988 to 2008. It was our kids that kissed their Dad goodbye. It is my son on the front line now for the next 11 yrs. It will be my grandchildren paying the price.

Have a party when it comes to defending your position, just remember come Thanksgiving, Xmas or birthdays you are celebrating as a family while we aren't!

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Pima:

First, get a grip.  It's not MY national security issue.    Military people, whether you choose to accept their expertise or not, have framed the obesity issue that way.....a potential national security concern.   Apparently commissioned officers whose job it is to pay attention to these issues have said as much.    If the appropriate response is to blow off what they say and what they recommend, then why in the world are my tax dollars going to pay their salaries?   I suspect that rather than doing a useless job, these individuals in the military, active or retired, have something valuable to say and it is a legitimate issue for the FL to follow up on and comment on.  You don't have to agree. 

So retention issues follow the economy....okay, lots of industries hire and fire based on the economy.   Is the military meant to be an ongoing jobs program, keeping  the payroll at a certain level whether we need those numbers or not?   I recall Eisenhower saying we should spend the money we need to defend the country and not a penny more.   Eisenhower was concerned about military spending going so high that it squeezed out spending on other national priorities and if he were still alive today, he'd probably be appalled.  



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Re: fitness

Its all in the numbers.

The goal is to have fit Prospects in the recruiting pool. Not necessarily fit recruits.

I found some numbers on the number of engineers that the US graduates per year, latest data 2009. Its STATIC, even Presidents BC, GWB, BO all have said we need more engineers. 

http://www.nacme.org/user/docs/RBv1no2.pdf there is a government source but I'm too lazy to find it again. 

The point being, although we graduate the same number of engineers every year, PBO says that we have a shortage, It seems that there is enough graduates to get the job done. Again, if you have a great pool of qualified students who wish to enter engineering school, you are probably going to get a better pool of graduates coming out. Lots of examples. Mate selection, choosing a car or house, etc.

FWIW, DS company has 8 openings at each of 3 locations. However, I am not sure if the openings are for real, gather data, or to prevent current employees from leaving. 



-- Edited by longprime on Friday 14th of September 2012 09:08:23 PM



-- Edited by longprime on Friday 14th of September 2012 09:09:38 PM

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Anyone else disgusted that, after a brief respite yesterday, we are once again today being fed the propaganda that all of this unrest is due to "protest" over an internet video?

And that Hillary gets on tv apologizing for the fact that we have free speech in the US before she gets around to condeming these murders?

Romney is right. These people view our leaders as idiots, and rightly so.



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Argue all you want, jazzy! That's what we're here for. This board keeps me from muttering to myself in the streets, as a friend of mine on CC once said. Worth every penny !☺

-- Edited by hope on Friday 14th of September 2012 08:13:40 PM

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Do you mean, "Christians"



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^yes, but it's the people of certain religions that actually harm others that are to blame.

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I think this guy is a narcissistic idiot!


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I wonder how we should treat the guy and funders of this movie. For 5 million bucks and free UTube, this guy has IMO pushed the boundaries of good citizenship and unnecessarily caused the death of 4 US citizens, several Libyan guards, and threaten the lives of our Nationals overseas and now at our campuses. Freedom of the Speech and Press do have their limitations as my grade school citizenship section taught us (late 50's). 

So are we now better off with this jerk, who probably knew that he will make pious peoples more than just upset ? 



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While veering back off topic is not ideal, I just can't let this one go. Having seen first hand how arbitrary the weight standards are in military regulations...and Pima knows my story better than any of you here at this board, I call it utter nonsense. Nobody wants fat enlisted or officers in military. Period. Yet, going through this experience with my own kid whose career was derailed because of "weight standards", I would argue that the tests to determine BMI are bogus, far more subjective than what is being represented in that article, and not realistic. When you have a future officer who can run fast, be a strong swimmer, do push ups, sit ups, pull ups above standards and pass every physical fitness test the Navy threw at him for 4 + years...and then be tape measured, weighed and dismissed, because the chart said he was too heavy, then you have a problem. This is a kid who, when not training with his battalion spent a good amount of time lifting weights at gym. Muscle weighs more than fat. Some in the military are going to be on the smaller side of those standards (like Pima's son) , and others will be on the bigger side (like my son.) If every enlisted or officer was put in the water tank to get a true representation of their weigh and true body mass indext, I would buy it. As it is done now, it is based on old standards when men were of smaller stature. Men are taller now than they were then, and yet they are still using an old chart. Those were averages, by the way. Ideal weight and physically fit may depend on a number of factors. You really can't compare two men of the same height without taking into account body type. Stocky guys with thicker necks are at a disadvantage in the current system of military weight assessment. Those who are under weight standards because they are leaner Los are at a disadvantage. If you looked at my daughter, you wouldn't be able to guess her weight. She is lean and tall, and yet when the nurse weighed her at a physical recently, she thought her scale was broken. It wasn't. She was simply weighing a girl who spent multiple hours a day swimming and solid muscle.

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I agree, it is a compliment. Pretty sure Jeannie Flynn Lovett and Nicole Fifi Malachowski are darn proud that they wear AF boots! FWIW, Jeannie was the 1st female fighter pilot, 1st female Wing Commander. Fifi was the 1st female Thunderbird pilot, 1st female operational fighter squadron Commander.



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"Your mama wears Army boots"

I don't think that is an insult in today's America. IMO, that's a pretty good compliment. 



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DonnaL wrote:
Your -- and Hope's -- utter, simplistic contempt for the intelligence of anyone who votes for President Obama shines brightly through all your posts.

It’s not the intelligence of liberals I have contempt for, it’s the liberal morality, as described by the latest scientific research, by a liberal social scientist who has the ability to follow the facts wherever they lead, even when those findings led to a conclusion which was contrary to his personal beliefs when he started his research. He describes his research and findings in this new book:

The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion

Of the six psychological foundations instilled in us by natural selection - which means that the most likely reason they exist is because they help us to perceive and react to real-world threats to our individual and collective social well being - liberal morality and cognition are based mostly on just one of them, care for the individual - that is, empathy - with a couple others sprinkled in for good measure, also concentrated on only the individual. Of the six social threat detectors that have evolved in humans, liberals employ only about half of them, and of that half mostly just "care" or "empathy." Liberal morality perceives and values only a portion of the full spectrum of human nature.

Conservatism is notable for its application of all six foundations in roughly equal balance.

Here's a Venn diagram that shows the relationship between liberal and conservative moralities. If you listen honestly and carefully to most political debates this picture will probably shine through.


The scientific truth is that it’s actually liberals who have the more simplistic perception and understanding of the world, not conservatives. Since roughly half of human nature is external to liberal morality many liberals have literally no other option in their attempts to understand conservative views but to attribute them to some sort of mental, emotional, or social dysfunction or phobia. Thus the timeles liberal meme of uncaring conservative "meanness," and conclusions such as Tea Party members are racist.

In fact, statistically speaking, most of the world's moralities, conservatism included, employ all of our natural selection instilled defense mechanisms. Liberalism, with its employment of only a few of them is the statistical outlier. This makes sense. Why would nature evolve a morality that ignores half the reasons humans should be instinctively wary?

The result of this myopic grasp of human nature is that the altruistic vision of liberal "empathy" is pathological, described here, also by a liberal:

Pathalogical Altruism

This is from the book’s “blurb:” Pathologies of altruism and empathy not only underlie health issues, but also a disparate slew of humankind's most troubled features, including genocide, suicide bombing, self-righteous political partisanship, and ineffective philanthropic and social programs that ultimately worsen the situations they are meant to aid. Pathological Altruism is a groundbreaking new book - the first to explore the negative aspects of altruism and empathy, seemingly uniformly positive traits. The contributing authors provide a scientific, social, and cultural foundation for the subject of pathological altruism, creating a new field of inquiry. Each author's approach points to one disturbing truth: what we value so much, the altruistic "good" side of human nature, can also have a dark side that we ignore at our peril.

With the best of intentions and with the purest of heart liberalism actually achieves the opposite of that which it seeks. In the name of independence it creates a society of dependents, in the name of equality it treats people unequally, in the name of tolerance it hates those who disagree with it.

R. R. Reno summarized the situation correctly in an article titled “Our One Eyed Friends” in the magazine “First Things:”

The righteous mind is like a tongue with six taste receptors." Our innate moral intuitions fall into six categories or "foundations": care, freedom, fairness, loyalty, authority, sanctity. Care, freedom, and fairness tend to focus on individuals. We see someone suffering, and our care taste bud is stimulated. Loyalty, authority, and sanctity focus on social realities. They are what Haidt calls "binding" foundations, because they unify people into social groups. No individual is harmed when someone uses the flag as a cleaning rag, but doing so involves a symbolic disregard for the moral value of patriotic loyalty.
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Seeing with the social [i.e., the binding foundations] as well as with the individual [i.e., the individualizing foundations] eye, as it were, unites American conservatives with the vast majority of human beings who in all known cultures place a great deal of importance on the "binding" foundations. All known cultures, that is, except the subculture of people who grow up in Western, educated, industrial, rich, and democratic societies, WEIRD societies, as Haidt calls them.

This subculture, the liberal subculture that formed Haidt in his childhood and throughout most of his education, produces people like the Penn undergraduates who say that it's alright to have sex with chickens as long as nobody is harmed. They are statistically weird, "outliers," as social scientists say. Unlike the vast majority of humanity, they've been socialized to disregard their emotional responses when faced with offenses to loyalty, authority, and sanctity. They're blinded in the moral eye that sees the social valences of moral situations.

It's this difference in the scope of moral concerns that underlies the deep and bitter divisions running through American public life. People who respond so differently to reality can't argue and debate. Too much separates them, and politics does indeed become a culture war by other means.
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Haidt's research suggests an inconvenient truth about our divided country. The ill-tempered rancor stems in large part from the moral myopia of liberals. They have a great deal of difficulty grasping the "binding" moral concerns that engage American conservatives, especially when those concerns are heightened and given shape by religion. And their response to this difficulty has been to summarily dismiss those who see with two eyes. Those of us who are concerned about loyalty, authority, and sanctity are subject to rhetorical extermination: We're denounced as "not mainstream."

And not just American conservatives. Liberals tend to be unable to muster much respect for the moral outlook of billions and billions of people throughout the globe whose traditional societies train them to use both eyes. Hence, for example, the Obama administration's desire to make the advancement of homosexual rights part of our foreign policy. It's just the latest part of the WEIRD subculture's effort to expand the influence of it's individualistic ethic.

Thus the profound problem we face. Liberalism is blind in one eye--yet it insists on the superiority of its vision and its supreme right to rule. It cannot see half the things a governing philosophy must see, and claims that those who see both halves are thereby unqualified to govern.




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It's sad when a large % of voters will vote obama again simply because they agree with him on a certain social issue. How simple minded and you see it expressed here on this board. With the economy in the tank
and the US under attack, you would think more people would actually care more about the big picture..that being the survival of our once great country.


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DonnL Wrote:

I'm sure a day doesn't go by that you don't wish there were still a property qualification for voting. Your -- and Hope's -- utter, simplistic contempt for the intelligence of anyone who votes for President Obama shines brightly through all your posts. The problem with this latest meme (the "low information" garbage) is that the more people see of Romney, and the more "information" he and his campaign spew forth, the more people reject him. The man is a stiff. I wish at the Democratic Convention, they had found someone from Hollywood -- too bad Paul Newman isn't around anymore -- to have a conversation onstage with an empty suit.

And, by the way, I very much doubt that Obama smoked any more pot when he was young than GW Bush. Or did any other drugs, for that matter. Even if he did, I'd vote for someone who smoked pot long before I'd vote for a weaselly gay-basher. Once a smirking bully, always a smirking bully.



Yup, Cheney's daughter. There's a reliable source for you! What utterly despicable, loathsome garbage. And, of course, factually inaccurate as well in claiming that the embassy statement was issued after the attack in Cairo. Pathetic. Like father, like daughter, I guess.


DonnL Wrote:

Yup, Cheney's daughter. There's a reliable source for you! What utterly despicable, loathsome garbage. And, of course, factually inaccurate as well in claiming that the embassy statement was issued after the attack in Cairo. Pathetic. Like father, like daughter, I guess.


In the face of this sort of reply I guess all I can do is respond in kind, so here you go:

Nyah Nyah! Your mother wears army boots!




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More on recent polling from Nate Silver:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/14/sept-13-after-convention-bounce-holding-obamas-polls-to-a-higher-standard/

 

But we’ve suddenly gone from having perhaps two state polls released every day to more like a dozen. (There has also been an increase in the number of national surveys.) When this happens, there can be the tendency for the news media to focus on those polls that confirm its current narrative about the race, while ignoring those that might tell a different story.

 



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I keep hearing on MSNBC and CNN that Obama has Ohio wrapped up, so I dug up Rasmussen, who I read recently has the best track record re polling closest to actual results.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/elections/election_2012/election_2012_presidential_election/ohio/election_2012_ohio_president

Then there's this:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll

which has Romney at 48% and Obama at 45%.

As they say, it ain't over til the fat lady sings.

 

 



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I'm not saying it pima, people in the military are saying it, as quoted in articles from at least 2005.   When it wasn't a political football because a Democratic FL made it her cause.     The message is clearly to urge the country to do something proactive about obesity rather than take the head-in-sand approach so that it doesn't become a more serious issue in the future.   Forward thinking is an important trait for leaders, I think.  



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"what sad people, what a sad religion."

An entire religion was established on this.

Large denominations have been established to various interpretations on this.

Global War uses this for justification in War and to fight a War. 

Millions of people of a single religion died because of this. 

Entire populations have been wiped out because of this. 

And I don't think anyone will discount the possibility that Civilization could be destroyed because of this-Has been more than once, prophetized. 



-- Edited by longprime on Friday 14th of September 2012 01:04:14 PM

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^ no, the simple minded animals who actually did the killing are the cause of the deaths. It's sad that some still haven't evolved and are stuck in the stone age.
Someone makes fun of my god so I must kill innocent people of that country...what sad people, what a sad religion.



-- Edited by geeps20 on Friday 14th of September 2012 12:47:36 PM

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 Samurai,

I didn't want to bring your story into the equation, but as I read what Jazzy was linking, I could only think of him. How the idea that the military can't meet their personnel numbers is total BS!

Your DS unfortunately was commissioning when there were too many Navy officers and to trim the ranks, he was cut. Had he entered 2, 5 or 10 yrs ago, he would have commissioned.  Our economy killed that dream.  That is the fact.  Yes, Jazzy, that is true.  The military is impacted by the economy.  When the economy is good, retention is low.  When it is bad, retention is high.  In 08 before we sank into the abyss, SLS's DS would have been commissioned.  It is also why back in the 90's the Army waived criminal records for enlistment.  

Jazzy, is not getting this issue. They are biting off that OMG the military can't find enough people, look at what the article states. The problem is they have too many people, and any tiny thing they can nail to get rid of them, they will. Weight, PT, academics, eyes, allergies, etc. will be used against them.

We are not at a National Security issue by any standard. We have too many in the military that if you don't fit every pigeon hole you are gone. Our DS who is thin, was taped 8 times in 4 yrs. He was told lose 5 lbs and you are medically DQ'd aka OUT of the AF! There you go Jazzy, my kid was deemed too thin, how does that work for your NS issue.

We are losing great assets like SLS's DS. He met the PFT. Can an obese person do 50+ sit ups in a minute, 2 min. rest, 50+ push ups, 2 min rest, and run a 1.5 mile in less than 10:30? That is their standard. They do that 2x a week every week in college. SLS's DS did that, but as she stated the stats are out dated regarding weight.

A 5'11 male is maxxed at @185 lbs. Would you consider a 5'11 male weighing 193 lbs obese, wearing a 32 X 32 jean? The AF would. The AF would tape them.

Let me ask you a question, if your child was going into battle would you care about their weight, or would you care about their ability to be physically fit? I would want SLS's DS, because they met the PT standards. He not only met them, he also maxxed them.  I want someone that can bring my husband, child home. I don't care how much they weigh. I am pretty sure bullets hit the slowest moving target more often and not the fastest irregardless of the size.

OBTW, my problem with the military is about PT.  Women are not required to meet the same PT stds as men.  My DD  gets to meet a different standard.  Again,  the last time I checked, when a jet crashes in enemy territory or over water, they don't  schedule them with okay you are a female 5'4 and weighing 120 lbs, so we won't fly you with a 6'0 210 lbs male.  The male must run faster, but the female can run slower.  Do you believe SLS's DS would leave his brethren behind.  

Want to worry about National Security, than make everyone meet the exact same standard physically.  My son is going to pilot training.  He has to rely on his peers in the G forbid situation.  Should my child be put at risk because someone is allowed to meet lower standards?  How does that work for National Security when a plane goes down and the aircrew is captured like in Gulf I?  SLS's DS could pull my DS out of the water, he could rescue him.  I really couldn't give a rats behind if he is 5,10 or 15 lbs overweight.  Just prove to me you meet the standards for physical fitness.


Again, before you bite off on what they are saying, start investigating what the standards are for obesity in the military standards. Did you know that women must meet weight standards as early as 6 weeks after giving birth? How many months was it before you were at your pre-pregnancy weight?


With that all said, again how in earth is that a National Security issue? Seriously? Are you saying that the wiki leak Arrmy private who met weight limits was not a security issue because he was not fat? Are you under the impression that SLS's DS did not commission because he didn't meet the standards, but a mid that had a DUI or criminal issues, did because weight was the issue. If so, you are so, so over the mark, that you are on Mars. SLS's DS did not commission because there were too many NROTC mids graduating and they had to get rid of mids entering the Navy.

I say this with kindness, but instead of believing what links are saying and arguing with your fellow posters, place trust in us. SLS's DS was ready to serve this country after 4 yrs of preparing as an NROTC mid, that required @10-20 hrs a week on top of his academic requirements. My DS too, he leaves in a few days to serve in the AF. Bullet served 20 yrs in the AF. I served 20 yrs as a spouse and moved 11 times in 21 yrs.

National security is not and will not ever be about obesity. Nutritionists are not part of the Military Personnel Planning when it comes to waivers.

Sorry for my rant.  It is my kids life on the line right now, and I would rather he had SLS's DS than a female.


-- Edited by pima on Friday 14th of September 2012 12:07:06 PM



-- Edited by pima on Friday 14th of September 2012 12:22:20 PM

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Jazzy,

The people you are quoting are nutritionists, they are not operational officers that deal with combat issues. They are losing great assets, and I agree with you on that, but to take it to a National Security level that the Army will not be able to field their personnel needs is totally off base.

It was a National Security issue back in the 90's when they waived the GED requirement, when the waived criminal records. That was a National Security issue.  When they waive those things to take someone on target weight wise, than yes, it is a National Security issue, but right now, that is not happening at all.

Back on topic.



-- Edited by pima on Friday 14th of September 2012 07:10:12 AM

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Jazzy,

Yeah the military is so badly hurting for military members they are waiving weight limits. They are so undermanned that is why they are RIFing officers and enlisted.  (RIF = Layed off in military terms). It is such an amazing crisis in the military that any and every hs applicant applying for an AROTC scholarship actually gets one.

Do you realize that the Army every yr has about 16K applicants for 1000 slots at WP. That about 10% of AROTC applicants actually get a scholarship. It does not sound like to me they are going to have a harder time fielding the Army.  There are so many people applying to join the military because of this economy, they are not granting waivers for anything.  Weight is a medical waiver issue.  Back in the 90's they were hurting so badly they waived not only weight issues, but also criminal records.  Not today.  Get a DUI, you are shown the door, no ifs, ands, or buts.

The 1500 released over 3 yrs is comical. There is over 400K people in the AF. What is that 1/3 of 1% of their entire force? That sounds like an epidemic to me, enough so much to place obesity as a factor of National Security! Not! It is really grasping at straws if anyone bites off on this at all.

In 2003 alone, more than 3,000 people were kicked out of all branches of the military for failing weight standards, Bathalon's study reports.

OMG 3K people,  this is a huge problem!  Oh yeah, I forgot between the AF, Army, Navy, Marines and Coast Guard there are over 4 Million members.  What is that statistically? 10% of 1%?


 

Before you walk down this path of biting off what is being sold, I think you should talk to people that have ties to the military to see that the weight issue is not a crisis at all.  The fact that people are shown the door is because the supply is so high, that they need to cut wherever they can.  That smacks in the face of what you are saying that unless we get obesity under control we won't have enough people that are eligible to serve.

 

Back on topic.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/revealed-inside-story-of-us-envoys-assassination-8135797.html
According to senior diplomatic sources, the US State Department had credible information 48 hours before mobs charged the consulate in Benghazi, and the embassy in Cairo, that American missions may be targeted, but no warnings were given for diplomats to go on high alert and "lockdown", under which movement is severely restricted.




-- Edited by pima on Friday 14th of September 2012 06:35:45 AM



-- Edited by pima on Friday 14th of September 2012 06:40:04 AM

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Imagine the media feeding frenzy that would be occurring right now if Romney had just said he did not think that he would consider Egypt an ally.  Imagine.

By the way, for those of you who are buying the White House BS that Obama was just "being technical" in his use of the term "ally," aside from the billions of dollars in aid we have been giving them, Egypt has been "technically" designated by our government as a Major Non-NATO Ally since 1989.



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Pima:

Here's an Associated Press article about the DoD coping with the same problem back in 2005, pre-Michelle so you can read it without getting your hackles up.  Seriously, I'll never understand the objection to MO using her FL pulpit to encourage healthier eating habits.  It doesn't apply to you and your family, then ignore it.   She's got a wider audience.    

 

Too fat to fight? Obesity takes a heavy toll on the military

 
July 04, 2005 12:00 am  •  

WATERTOWN, Wis. —— With America at war and in need of a few good men, Jon Schoenherr expected a warm reception when he walked into an Army recruiting office in this Midwestern farm community, intending to enlist.

But a sergeant gave the 17-year-old some surprising news.

"He told me I'd have to lose a little bit of weight," said Schoenherr, who dropped 50 pounds to qualify.

Besides terrorists, germ warfare and nuclear weapons, military officials increasingly worry about a different kind of threat —— troops too fat to fight.

Weight issues plague all branches of the military, from elite Marines to the Air Force, often lampooned as the "chair force" because of its many sedentary jobs.

Thousands of troops are struggling to lose weight, and thousands have been booted out of the service in recent years because they couldn't.

However, one of the biggest worries concerns those not even in uniform yet: Nearly 2 out of 10 men and 4 out of 10 women of recruiting age weigh too much to be eligible, a record number for that age group.

"This is quickly becoming a national security issue for us. The pool of recruits is becoming smaller," said Col. Gaston Bathalon, an Army nutrition expert.

Unless weight rules are relaxed, "we're going to have a harder time fielding an Army," he said.

Today's soldiers are supersized, averaging 37 pounds heavier than their Civil War counterparts. Military officials say that's not all bad, because most of it is muscle, not fat, and the result of better nutrition. "Large and in charge" makes soldiers look more formidable to the enemy, they note.

But at an obesity conference in Las Vegas last fall and in interviews since then, Bathalon and other military officials detailed the heavy burden that excess pounds are causing for some troops and taxpayers.

Weight problems add stress to already stressful jobs, costing many soldiers promotions and leading some to try desperate measures like rubber suits and risky pills to shed pounds.

Problems don't end when active duty does, either. The Veterans Affairs health system increasingly is strained by vets piling on pounds and developing weight-related diseases like diabetes.

Ironically, the big concern used to be soldiers not weighing enough. Congress passed the school lunch program after World War II, worried that too many high schoolers were malnourished and unfit to fight.

"This is the same deal in reverse. We've got young kids who are not going to be qualified for military service. They're either unfit or overfat," said Col. Karl Friedl, commander of the U.S. Army Research Institute of Environmental Medicine at Natick, Mass.

USARIEM, as it is known, has 170 doctors, dietitians, psychologists and other scientists who study military medical issues, from preventing heat exhaustion to coping with sleep deprivation. They view soldiers as specialized athletes whose physical condition can be a life-or-death matter. Increasingly, they deal with weight.

It starts with new recruits. Each branch of the service has its own entry rules, but by federal weight guidelines, 43 percent of women and 18 percent of men in prime recruiting ages exceed screening weights for military service, Bathalon said.

Army standards are based on body fat, using a chart for body-mass index —— a ratio of weight and height —— as a screening tool. If soldiers or recruits exceed chart limits, body fat calculations are done using a formula based mostly on waist size.

Marines can be as much as 10 percent over weight standards to ship to boot camp.

"The Marines say, 'Send us anybody and we'll turn them into a Marine.' They're pretty successful at it," Friedl said.

Schoenherr, the Wisconsin Army recruit, was pretty successful, too. After weighing in at 215 pounds, he did his own boot camp during his senior year in high school, going to the recruiting center for 6 a.m. workouts, then downing a boiled egg or two and orange juice before heading to class.

Lunch would be "tuna fish right out of the can" or a low-carb wrap at school, he said. After school, he'd lift weights. He's now a svelte 165 pounds and about to join a special forces unit.

"I've had some people who have lost close to 100 pounds to join," said Sgt. Chad Eske, his recruiter.

But often, making it into the military is just the start of the struggle. The military even has its own version of the "freshman 15" —— after basic training, Army women gain an average of 18 pounds in their first year and often have problems with annual weigh-ins that determine whether they can stay.

A survey Bathalon and others did of 1,435 troops referred to Fort Bragg Hospital for weight loss helps show the drastic measures some try. Roughly three-fourths did things doctors recommend —— eating less, exercising more and downing more fruits and vegetables.

But many resorted to potentially harmful things. Nearly half tried using rubber suits or saunas to sweat off pounds, a third of men and half of women tried appetite suppressants, and 1 in 5 tried laxatives. Eleven percent of women and 6 percent of men had tried vomiting.

Half of the troops said stress was a reason they had gained weight, and half had come for help because they'd been denied promotion.

"The Air Force is not escaping the national trends," Maj. Christine Hunter said at the obesity conference, showing a photograph of the new Baghdad Burger King, already the third busiest in the world.

About 1,500 troops were involuntarily separated, or kicked out, of the Air Force from 2000 to 2003 for failure to maintain weight, she reported.

In 2003 alone, more than 3,000 people were kicked out of all branches of the military for failing weight standards, Bathalon's study reports.

"You lose your income, you lose your retirement, you lose your medical benefits," he said.

Even those with long military careers sometimes develop weight problems afterward, burdening the VA health system, which treats about 5 million veterans each year, half of them over 65.

They tend to be sicker than the general population. More than 70 percent are overweight and 33 percent are obese, said Richard Harvey, a health psychologist at the VA Center for Health Promotion. Pain is the biggest reason they give for not exercising, and 31 percent say a disability prevents it, he said.

About 20 percent of veterans have diabetes, compared to 7 percent to 8 percent of the general population

"We knew that there were enormous costs with that," Harvey said, so he developed MOVE, a comprehensive program of psychological counseling, nutrition, exercise, medications and even sometimes bariatric surgery.

Parts of it started in October 2003 at 17 pilot sites, and the hope is to have a standardized program available to all veterans, said Dr. Steve Yevich, director of the VA health promotion center.

It will be a big improvement from 2001, when a survey by chief of staff Mary Burdick revealed that only 37 of the VA's 160 major medical centers had weight management programs, ranging from intense programs "down to just a little old dietitian sitting there," Yevich said.

Sending soldiers home healthy is the top goal, said Friedl of the Army research center.

"It's not enough to recruit healthy young men and women and later return them safely to their families," he wrote in a recent medical journal article. "We now try to return them better than when they joined the Army with the promise that they will 'be all they can be."'

Increasingly, that means weighing a little less.



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I guess these attacks were the fault of the weaknesses of the presidents in office at the time.   With such blood on their hands, how did they ever get re-elected?

Oh yeah, Cheney's right-wing propaganda doesn't apply to Republican presidents.

 

Under Bush's tenure:

June 14, 2002, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan
Suicide bomber kills 12 and injures 51.

February 20, 2003, international diplomatic compound in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Truck bomb kills 17.

February 28, 2003, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan
Gunmen on motorcycles killed two consulate guards.

July 30, 2004, U.S. embassy in Taskkent, Uzbekistan
Suicide bomber kills two.

December 6, 2004, U.S. consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Militants stormed and occupied perimeter wall. Five killed, 10 wounded.

March 2, 2006, U.S. consulate in Karachi, Pakistan
Suicide car bomber killed four, including a U.S. diplomate directly targeted by the assailants.

September 12, 2006, U.S. embassy in Damascus, Syria
Gunmen attacked embassy with grenades, automatic weapons, and a car bomb (though second truck bomb failed to detonate). One killed and 13 wounded.

January 12, 2007, U.S. embassy in Athens, Greece
A rocket-propelled grenade was fired at the embassy building. No one was injured.

July 9, 2008, U.S. consulate in Istanbul, Turkey
Armed men attacked consulate with pistols and shotguns. Three policemen killed.

March 18, 2008, U.S. embassy in Sana'a, Yemen
Mortar attack misses embassy, hits nearby girls' school instead.

September 17, 2008, U.S. embassy in Sana'a, Yemen attacked

 

 Reagan also must have been a foreign policy weakling:

 

April 18 1983 Beirut Islamic Jihad car bomb destroys Embassy  63 killed

December 12 1983 Kuwait City al-Dawa truck bomb outside embassy 6 killed.

September 20 1984 Beirut Hezbollah truck bomb outside embassy  24 killed

November 1984 Bogotá Car bomb outside Embassy planted by drug cartel  1 killed

February 1986 Lisbon Popular Forces of 25 April car bomb outside Embassy

 



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john doe wrote:

Those latest polls for Romney are looking good in Virginia, Florida and Ohio.


 You mean these?

FLORIDA
Obama 49
Romney 44

OHIO
Obama 50
Romney 43

VIRGINIA
Obama 49
Romney 44



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Those latest polls for Romney are looking good in Virginia, Florida and Ohio.



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Btw, I'm sure you know that the "low information meme" is typically used to describe the "angry white voters" you so lovingly referred to below.

I doubt you've ever heard the term used for Democrat voters. Somehow out there is media-land they don't exist. All Dem voters are ipso facto intelligent.

Funny how that works.



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winchester wrote:


The current crisis is the logical and practically inevitable outcome of Obama's foreign policy. Picking on Romney, as DonnaL and most liberals (e.g., the press) are is a crass, morally heinous, and transparent distraction aimed at nothing but diverting attention away from where the buck really stops, which is in the current Oval Office. This blood is on Obama's hands, and no amount of Romney bashing can change that basic fact.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444017504577646142541161820.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEADTop





-- Edited by winchester on Thursday 13th of September 2012 10:17:36 AM


 Yup, Cheney's daughter.  There's a reliable source for you!  What utterly despicable, loathsome garbage.  And, of course, factually inaccurate as well in claiming that the embassy statement was issued after the attack in Cairo.    Pathetic.  Like father, like daughter, I guess.



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Not to mention the low information voters who vote democratic to keep entitlements coming (because, as everyone knows, those heartless Republicans who care only about making the rich richer at the expense of the poor would cut them off if they had their way) represented in large part by the tall blue columns in this map:



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OBTW back on topic,

JMPO, can we take 1 second and give our thoughts to the families that are living the worst nightmare?



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Good Morning, DonnaL. 

If we can get you to bring some of your friends and not friends over here, we can really get this board going. 



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"The man is stiff."

Well, there ya' go. It's qualities like this that are most important. I believe that was the point I was making? We wanna loose, cool guy in the Oval Office!! Somebody we can relate to! Somebody who feels our pain! Somebody who can shoot hoops, drink beer and sing on key! (That his wife adores Beyonce is a major plus, too.)

Mitt would not bring those important qualifications to the Office of the President--I agree with you. (My goodness, he doesn't ingest caffeine, drink, or smoke- let alone ever touched a drug!). Not cool.



-- Edited by hope on Thursday 13th of September 2012 04:07:56 PM

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 Did the statement from the Pentagon in 2010 fry your brain as well?     FYI:

 

Obesity Jeopardizes U.S. National Security

Elaine Gavalas
 
The nation's obesity epidemic has become a top public-health concern. According to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), obesity in children has more than tripled since 1980. Nearly a third of children are overweight or obese and 23 percent of young adults are considered obese. Obese children and young adults are at increased risk for a lower life expectancy and chronic diseases including diabetes, heart disease and cancer. Now research reports that the obesity epidemic jeopardizes the military and national security.

The Study

The study, released by Mission:Readiness, a nonprofit, bipartisan organization of retired admirals and generals, examined Pentagon data. They found that a whopping 75 percent of the nation's young adults fail to qualify for military service. According to the Pentagon, obesity is the top reason why military applicants are ineligible for service. Other reasons include health problems, lack of high school diploma and criminal history.

National Security Crisis

"Being overweight or obese is a major disqualifying factor for young adults applying for military service," says Major General Kelley, US Army (Ret), in a news release. "An estimated one out of four of all young people ages 17 to 24 are too heavy to serve in the military. In the past 30 years, child obesity rates have more than tripled. Obesity has become more than a major health problem. If we don't address this problem now, we are putting our national security at risk."

Improve School Nutrition and Early Learning

To reverse this downward trend, Mission:Readiness is calling on Congress to reauthorize the Child Nutrition Act to help improve nutrition standards for meals served in school and in child care settings. They also support the passage of the Early Learning Challenge Fund Act (H.R. 3221), to fund high quality early childhood learning programs.

Your Thoughts

Are you taking positive action to help your child achieve and maintain a healthy weight? Please share with us below.

Sources

Retired Military Brass Support USDA's Call for Improved Health and Nutrition Standards. February 23, 2010, News Release. missionreadiness.org.

Ready, Willing And Unable To Serve, A Report by Mission:Readiness. missionreadiness.org.

Gavalas, Elaine. The Yoga Minibook for Weight Loss. Simon & Schuster Fireside. elainegavalas.com .



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winchester wrote:

Not to mention the low information voters who vote democratic to keep entitlements coming (because, as everyone knows, those heartless Republicans who care only about making the rich richer at the expense of the poor would cut them off if they had their way) represented in large part by the tall blue columns in this map:


 

I'm sure a day doesn't go by that you don't wish there were still a property qualification for voting.  Your -- and Hope's -- utter, simplistic contempt for the intelligence of anyone who votes for President Obama shines brightly through all your posts.  The problem with this latest meme (the "low information" garbage) is that the more people see of Romney, and the more "information" he and his campaign spew forth, the more people reject him.  The man is a stiff.   I wish at the Democratic Convention, they had found someone from Hollywood -- too bad Paul Newman isn't around anymore -- to have a conversation onstage with an empty suit.   

And, by the way, I very much doubt that Obama smoked any more pot when he was young than GW Bush.  Or did any other drugs, for that matter.  Even if he did, I'd vote for someone who smoked pot long before I'd vote for a weaselly gay-basher.   Once a smirking bully, always a smirking bully.



-- Edited by DonnaL on Thursday 13th of September 2012 03:49:18 PM

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I would take BC and Hillary over Obama.

Seriously, MO going on Dr. Oz to say the greatest national security threat is obesity fried my brain!

I also have to say that Hillary because her and Bill tried to do national healthcare back in the early 90's, probably would have been better at creating a program that Americans could get behind, due to the fact that they failed the 1st time. That failure gives them a very unique perspective of what would fly and what wouldn't.

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If you want Hilary, you also get BC. Limbaugh love that to happen. A trio made for one another. 



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