Political & Elections

longprime · Guru

RE: Bounty on Zimmerman's head

pima · Guru

I agree with you winchester!

I know it sounds strange, but I feel for the special prosecutor because if the facts don't support charging him, I am sure there will be many death threats against them.

I do not see this ending pretty in any way you play it out.

pima · Guru

I am with you hope, it does appear that if you live by the rule of innocent until proven guilty somehow you are a racist and supporting Zimmerman with no care for the loss of life. However, in reality you would do the exact same thing if Zimmerman had died and Trayvon was the shooter.

I lived in NC, @50 miles from Duke when the alleged rape occurred. Watching it unfold you really do learn that what the media reports and what is reality can be 2 different things.

I saw that NBC right now is in some hot water because of how they edited the 911 call. In actuality they cut out some large portions. The police asked him to describe Trayvon as either black or hispanic. He did not just come out with it as a racial issue.

Update on Spike Lee's tweet. He has settled with the elderly couple for an undisclosed sum. I hope that Spike Lee learns how costly it was for him to believe what you read on Twitter is not guaranteed truth.

winchester · Guru

what the media reports and what is reality can be 2 different things

Absolutely correct.

Back in the day of the Reagan administration and the air traffic controller's strike I personally knew one of the controllers. He was a spokesman who was interviewed on the news about what was going on.

It was quite obvious to him that the reporter had decided the "angle" of the story he wanted to air before the interview happened. The questions the reporter asked were oriented toward that angle, and the piece that was aired was configured to tell the story that the reporter wanted to tell, which had very little to do with the actual thinking of the controller.

The media's job is to maintain and increase readership and viewership. They're in competition with each other for our attention. They do what they can to get it and keep it. What's the "story?" What's the "angle?" What's the "spin" that will grab and hold our attention?

People love gossip. We love intrigue. We love to see conflict; tension. I'm not being cynical. It's just human nature. It's what we are. If all we got were the facts we'd lose interese in a heartbeat and flip to a channel that gives us what we want.

What's generating the "buzz" in this case? The protests. The bounty. The parents going to Capital Hill. Sharpton. Jackson. And they know it. THAT's the story. The facts are peripheral.

-- Edited by winchester on Friday 30th of March 2012 06:05:05 AM

hope · Guru

I haven't been following this that closely, but I find the assumption by some that Those preferring to wait for all the facts to come out, and to give z the benefit of the doubt (innocent until proven guilty anyone? )means that those people somehow don't care that trevon is dead. I don't care what his grades were, or that he pulled some rebel stuff at school. He was a young man with his whole life ahead of him, and the fact that he is dead is just tragic.

longprime · Guru

DW has bought DS, a lot of ski/rainwear/hoodies for is walk/bike to work. DS works student hours. He slouches. Walks with hands in pockets. Seattle, where it is still raining.

longprime · Guru

IMO

Zimmer follows TM,

TM becomes aware that Z is following him. Suspects a stalk

TM evades Z by ducking behind building, and loses Z.

Z finds TM and is now suspicious why did TM evade the tail. Z confronts TM.

TM is now worried, that this person is still stalking and even approaching him.

Z demands to know what TM is doing, his name, the reason why he went behind a residence. TM says that its none of Z's business. Z response by saying that this his turf, and approaches TM. TM responds by not backing down. Z grabs TM and a stuggle ensues. Z eventually pulls his weapon and shoots. disbelief

TM stood his own ground only to discover that the guy had a weapon of mass destruction.

IMO

Could be interesting in colleges where there is a Zero Tolerance but concealed weapons are still brought to school or in residences.

Property and Casualty companies will have a new exclusion.

busdriver11 · Guru

This seems so apparent to me that this shooting was all about fear.

A rash of break ins, a wanna be cop, a self appointed neighborhood watchman. Walking around, looking for someone suspicious in the dark because bad things had happened. He sees a young black man who he doesn't recognize, wearing a hoodie with something in his hands. He looks suspicious so he follows him, adrenalin pumping. Young black man feels threatened, being followed by a large Hispanic man in the dark. He's afraid he's going to get mugged or beat up. The color doesn't matter much, if a man of any color was following me in the dark, I'd be scared. He faces what he thinks is his attacker, they get in an altercation. The wanna be cop gets scared and shoots.

If the kid has known this was just a neighborhood watchman, he wouldn't have felt as threatened. If the wanna be had realized that this was a fairly harmless kid, he wouldn't have felt threatened. Just my guess on how things went down. A sad tragedy, all about fear.

And the race baiters continue, just basking in the spotlight, trying to stretch it out as long as they can. So sad.

CelticClan07 · Senior Member

https://twitter.com/#!/KillZimmerman

Evil among us.

winchester · Guru

The debate, before the facts are really known, seems to be boiling down to either Trayvon was the instigator or Zimmerman shot him for walking while black.

Is there no other possibility? Does anyone here have first hand experience with people who have personality disorders, like Borderline, or OCD, or anything? There are a lot more people who are a little bit off center in this way walking around out there in the world than most of us are really aware of. It kinda sounds like Zimmerman is a wannabe cop. Could he have some sort of John Hinkley-like fixation?

Is it possible that this has nothing at all to do with race, or must we, like Procrustes, fit everything that ever happens into that bed?

Poetsheart · Senior Member

They were hard on Mr. Oliver, no doubt about it. You might even say they were bullying him. It certainly isn't the way I would have handled it. But, one thing they did indeed accomplish was to get to the truth about his credibility as a spokesperson claiming to "know" George Kimmerman so well that he could emphatically state his "friend's" actions were not racially motivated on the night he shot Trayvon Martin. As a person who doesn't know George Zimmerman at all, I can't claim to know what was in the mind of this man, either. I can only listen to the content of the 911 tapes, and draw on the context of said tapes. What exactly is it about someone walking down the street, and talking on his cell phone that makes another conclude he's "up to no good", or "on drugs or something"? What would make that same person call 911 to report that a 8 or 9 year old boy looks "suspicious"? What might the two "suspicious" persons have in common?

hope · Guru

The way msnbc is treating joe Oliver, the friend/acquaintance of Zimmerman who is willing to stick up for him in the court of public opinion, is outrageous. You'd think he had committed a crime . They should be ashamed of themselves, but just the opposite, it appears. (fortunately/unfortunately)I have cable again.

pima · Guru

I heard about that too soccerguy. The latest report was that they left their home last night out of fear. I didn't hear that it came from Spike Lee, just someone from CA.

I now wonder if they can return anytime soon because with this day of the internet and tweeting it will be viral and stay out there for a very long time.

I also do agree if it was an African American male under the same circumstances would there be this outcry? Would it have ever made the national news?

I get the outrage from it being a child, because that outrage would be there if they were the same race. However, if the outrage you are exhibiting is over race, than it speaks volumes of the protester if there wouldn't be the same anger.

soccerguy315 · Guru

apparently in his rush to help get Zimmerman, Spike Lee tweeted his address incorrectly and now tons of people are showing up at some random person's house. Hope nothing happens to those occupants.

winchester · Guru

Don'tcha just love all the protests and the bounty and the uproar before the facts and the truth are even known?

But those people are not jumping to racist conclusions. Oh, no. Can't be. They're on the right side of history. They're standing up against injustice. Their righteous indignation is perfectly justified.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

When I first heard about this case, it seemed like a foregone conclusion that it was a racial incident.

I am not convinced, in light of emerging facts of the case that this is so cut and dried.

it's a rush to judgement and assumptions, and if we should know better. The police haven't charged him with a crime. Perhaps they know more than the public, or even the New Black Panthers, at this point.

DonnaL · Senior Member

I see that Michelle Malkin's behavior is as reprehensible as usual:

http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2012/03/trayvon-martin-updates_27.html#disqus_thread

Not much of an apology on her part, if you ask me. And even if that had been a photo of Trayvon Martin, I guess the theme is that if you can find a photo of the guy with the gun wearing a tie, and a photo of the 17-year old without the gun with his underwear showing, that proves that the 17-year old deserved to die. In a world where people think it's OK to twitter their outraged and flagrantly racist complaints that black actors were hired to play a couple of parts in The Hunger Games -- playing characters who were specifically described in the book as having dark brown skin, although apparently a lot of people managed not to notice that -- maybe I shouldn't be surprised.

pima · Guru

geeps, I think people forget that the Panthers did almost the exact same thing during the 1st few days at Duke. The Panthers like to stir things up and than disappear to watch the anger implode.

longprime · Guru

As I said before, Zimmerman, oughta skipped town/USA. evileye

CelticClan07 · Senior Member

This makes me extremely uncomfortable, what could mom's motive be: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/trayvon-martin-trademarks-769123

Soccerguy, ITA, put all the info out in a court of law.

geeps20 · Senior Member

liberal media rushing to judgement as usual. Simple question..if Trayvon was shot by a black person, would we have ever heard this story?..I think we all know the answer.

Roman..remember Duke Lacross players. Maybe Zimmerman is guilty of a crime, maybe not...

-- Edited by geeps20 on Monday 26th of March 2012 05:30:17 PM

pima · Guru

I am not saying Zimmerman should not be on trial, but I think people here are even jumping to conclusions. We do not know the real facts, only what the media is reporting.

The grand jury will convene on April 10th, and until that time I believe we should refrain from creating in our own minds what the facts are from what has only been released to the media through various sources.

Today it has come out that a new witness has stated Zimmerman had been in the defense mode because of Tayron being an aggressor.

Let it all settle out. I am willing to take wagers though that the "stand your ground" law in Florida will be re-worked.

Secondly, the Black Panthers don't surprise me with this antic. They did this with the Duke case yrs ago. They really don't care IMPO about the victims or the facts, they care about stirring up the emotions that are already boiling and getting their name out there.

Thinking out loud, but couldn't the Panthers be charged with solicitation of a murder, or conspiring to commit murder? I wonder legally if that is even possible.

pima · Guru

I think it is interesting how people perceive stereotyping and racism.

I agree with winchester, it is just as prejudice to say "white people want to pretend...."

How is that not prejudice?

I am white, a woman with a DD who had a black boyfriend. I had no issue with it, I see it as genetics. Brother is an albino, no pigmentation, African americans IMPO, have pigmentation. His mother was horrified that her DS was dating a "white" girl. My DD was in tears that she never met her, but made a judgement regarding her.

It happens both ways. It is called ignorance.

The minute we stop classifying people by color or appearance is the minute this issue will end.

My kids will tell you that I stopped them when they were in Pre-school. As any 3,4 or 5 yr old will be they use physical descriptors. Whenever my kids said my brown friend, I would say I don't know who you are talking about. I forced them to describe them as my friend in GS, or at the pool I play with, etc. They learned through our actions that physical descriptors would not be tolerated, and they know it by the time they were 6.

Just saying look inside yourself, and ask did you add to racism or stereotypes (handicap) by allowing your children when they were young to classify a person not by their qualities, but by their appearance?

I agree that Obama with he would look my son hurt/divided. I do get that Obama is a father too, who has had to endure prejudices. I don't think people should judge him on that comment. He was just a Dad imagining if he had a different path it could have been his child.

-- Edited by pima on Monday 26th of March 2012 08:56:10 AM

winchester · Guru

white people want to pretend that we've moved on from that ugly stage in our history.

That's stereotyping, and possibly racist.

I think CelticClan is correct in saying "I don't think whites have the illusion that the country is completely at peace with race relations."

I don't think anybody is saying that the problem is "cured" (so to speak) and there are no longer any issues.

But it's also true that pointing out the fact that people like the Black Panthers, Al Sharpton, and Jesse Jackson have essentially a one-dimensional view of the world in which racism lurks under every rock and barely beneath the surface of virtually every issue is often a sure-fire way of being accused of, at best, not getting it, and at worst being racist.

-- Edited by winchester on Monday 26th of March 2012 07:35:34 AM

soccerguy315 · Guru

hey these are the same people that stood outside of polling places during the election right? But we were assured they were not there for voter intimidation...

for the record, I absolutely think that Zimmerman should be on trial (in a legal court, not the court of public opinion). Put all the evidence out there.

-- Edited by soccerguy315 on Sunday 25th of March 2012 09:09:57 PM

CelticClan07 · Senior Member

I don't think whites have the illusion that the country is completely at peace with race relations. This president has stoked he racial flames time and time again. He is no uniter and I'm ashamed more than ever he is president. He did NOT have to say, 'if I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon.' He should have said either A. nothing B. Offered his condolances to Trayvon's family or C. Say 'this boy is the nation's son'. I'm so sad for this boys family, senseless loss. However, the president is making the nation more divided than ever.

More to the story: http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

romanigypsyeyes · Guru

That's just not good. It's that type of mentality led Zimmerman to do this in the first place.

I do think he needs to be on trial. How he is getting away with this is beyond me. If a black man shot an unarmed white kid, even if the black man did have blood on him, he'd have been arrested that night. Period.

The facts that we know: he pursued someone after being told not to, he shot an unarmed kid. No one knows for sure what happened in between that but I think that should warrant a trial. When you're told NOT to pursue someone, and you do, and said person winds up dead- you are responsible.

This case has made me very, very angry. I grew up in a primarily African American area and I help run a primarily African American basketball league. The racism in this country is astounding, and unacknowledged, despite how much white people want to pretend that we've moved on from that ugly stage in our history.

Sorry for the rant.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

http://news.yahoo.com/10-000-reward-offered-us-black-teens-killer-201659364.html

Group offers $10,000 for US black teen's killer

AFP – 3 hrs ago

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A black political group offered a $10,000 reward Saturday for the killer of an African-American teenager, amid a nationwide uproar which has prompted a rethink of America's race issues.

The New Black Panther Party displayed a wanted poster on its website with a picture of George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who shot Trayvon Martin, 17, last month.

"WANTED!!! For the murder of Trayvon Martin... ALIVE, not dead or harmed," the poster read.

Several dozen supporters of the group known by its acronym NBPP-- unrelated to the revolutionary Black Panther Party active in the 1960s-1980s -- meanwhile protested for the third time this week at the police headquarters in Sanford, Florida.

"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," leader Mikhail Muhammad told the Orlando Sentinel. "We don't hate anyone, we hate injustice."

Activists had called for the mobilization of 5,000 black men to capture Zimmerman. And Muhammad said the NBPP was receiving donations from black entertainers and athletes, with a goal to collect $1 million by next week.

Thousands of demonstrators have marched in at least 10 US cities to express their outrage over the attack, with some of the anger directed at local authorities handling the murder investigation.

They have not arrested or charged Zimmerman because he claimed self-defense, which allowed him to benefit from Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law that lets state residents use lethal force when they are at risk of being killed or seriously injured by an assailant. Zimmerman had a permit to carry a gun.

In Washington, at least 1,000 protesters -- many in black hoodies, some with bags of Skittles candy like the one Martin bought before he was shot -- gathered at Freedom Plaza in the heart of the US capital to demand justice.

"This is bigger than you think it is," said comedian Dick Gregory, an icon of the Civil Rights movement, who suspected that the full story of Martin's death has yet to come to light.

"Don't waste your time with anger until you get the whole truth... Stop being emotional and start demanding answers," he said.

"We must change a society that thinks the black man is a problem," said Rashawn Davis of the Georgetown University chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP).

Police at the scene estimated the crowd at 1,000, while organizers put the figure at around 3,000, a day after a vigil for Martin in the capital's low-income Anacostia district.

Sanford police told AFP they were ignoring the NBPP's call to capture Zimmerman, a white Hispanic.

Despite the racially charged nature of the case, Zimmerman's lawyer insisted his client was not racist.

"I asked him, 'Are you a racist? Do you have anything against black people?' and he said 'No,'" Zimmerman's legal adviser Craig Sonner told CNN on Friday. "I don't see anything that indicates to me that he's a racist."

Sonner said Zimmerman and his wife acted as mentors to two teenage African Americans, even after funding was cut for the program.

They have also helped at a fundraiser for an African-American church, according to the lawyer.

President Barack Obama has called for nationwide "soul searching" in the wake of the tragedy.

Political & Elections

Group offers $10,000 for US black teen's killer

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