romani - there are people attending college because they can get funding from the government that would not otherwise be attending. More students creates higher demand. Higher demand creates higher prices.
I want to be clear that I'm not necessarily arguing that the government shouldn't make school loans and grants available. I'm just saying it drives up costs. But the cost should not be the only factor considered when deciding if the programs are worth it.
here's what Biden had do say about it in response to a question from a student:
Biden: By the way, government subsidies have impacted upon rising tuition costs. It's a conundrum here. But if we went the rate your view of the free market route what we would have done is we would have not of done that. We would not have increased pell grants, for example. And there would be 9 million fewer students in college today.
And there would be hundreds of thousands and millions of students who would not be in college who don't get Pell grants because there was no ability for them to borrow money through Perkins loans and/or have the tax deduction.
So you are right, in a pure free-market the college tuition would have to be lower because there would be fewer people going to school, they wouldn't have as much coming in. But the end result is we would probably have -- we go for the better part, half a generation, of going 16th in the world maybe down to 20th in the world.
soccer, they're really not giving that much money. You have to have a very small EFC (really low income) in order to get any money. A full Pell only covers 1/5 of my COA at my public U. Pell+Stafford is about 2/5 of the COA. I have yet to see any proof that that's what's driving up costs, though I've seen it said many times.
if the federal government stopped giving out so much money for cheap, then college costs might start to come down.
Alternatively, states need to fund their "fair share" of operating expenses because every school needs certain money to operate. When the state cuts funding, it has to come from elsewhere.
(to be clear, giving money to students and giving money to the schools are different pots of money).
There should absolutely not be any type of student loan bailout. You made the decision. Pay back the money.
There are some here who think because there was a runup from the 1980's throught 2000, that it is going to happen again. Historically such is not the case.
All our children were given the come to JC meeting prior to applying for college. We have 3 kids, 1st entered in 08, and last will graduate in 16. from 10 to 14 we will have 2 in college at any given time.
We told them apply, but understand if you are applying to an OOS or private college that is on par with the IS, we are not footing the bill just because you want to go OOS, so you better hope for scholarships. Our DD wanted to go to NCST or ECU in NC, the exact same type of school that VA had...VT and VCU. She didn't want to go to NCST or ECU per se, she wanted to go back to NC, and I was not going to pay 35K a yr for the same education.
She is at VT, loving life, and happier than a clam in sand because she gets it now. She stayed IS, and will not have loans to pay back. She gets it now that if she went to NC she would have already 40K in debt and 2 more yrs to go.
My SIL has a DD at a private college, Bullet and I just shake our heads over their situation. The college costs near 50K a yr, between her mother and her they took this yr as a freshman 25K in loans on top of the monthly payment plan after the merit. The girl is in Interior design, and one of her classes this fall was Chocolate! HUH? You are paying 50K for her to take a class in chocolate?
They brag about the school being ranked as 1 of the 10 ten in the nation for students to go abroad. It is mandated by the college, part of the tuition, so of course they have 100%. They are not going to top tier colleges abroad, and do not have a choice where to go. Is that really worth 50K a yr compared to colleges like Parson, Textiles, and even your IS college without the 1 semester overseas?
Our DD will be going abroad next yr as a jr., at the exact same cost as if she was at VT. The difference is she has to apply and fight for the slot. Her top 3 are Oxford, Edinburgh and Australia, all with the dept chair's backing/support. Maybe it is parental pride, but I would think any employer who looked at her resume (not in design like her cousin) would say you went to Oxford for a semester?
Our DD's cost of education will hit @ 75K, if you add in tuition, room, board, books over 4 yrs, Our niece, 1 yr behind DD will hit 200K, and in her major, I don't see her making the money back quick. I don't see her even making 40K upon graduation in NYC.
I hope I am wrong, but honestly I have no pity. They are paying for college because the college took her. It is about keeping up with the Jones. Our youngest is a sr in HS, and as much as we love him, he gets it. We won't pay or go in debt because he didn't get with the program in HS.
Luckily for us, VA has a really great program. If you attend any CC in the state, pull a 3.0 you will have a guarantee acceptance to any IS college. Many of his friends that academically can get into high tier colleges are going to the CC because financially they can't afford 4 yrs at the private, or even IS. The stigma of CC is not really existent here to the level that it exists everywhere else. For many they believe it makes financial sense since in the end of the day, employers look at the college that awards the degree.
UVA is number 2 in the nation for Public and is considered the Public Ivy. IS kids get rejected alot. For some this allows them to get that UVA degree.
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Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
The President (regardless of Party) is correct in saying that colleges are going to have to control their costs, quickly too; Else Higher Education will lose the favor of government support.
In prospective, DS (full pay) entered private '02 at $35K, and the school (CMU) had then reputation as being the most expensive COA in the Nation. At '06 graduation, CMU new students COA was $44K.
We did have COA covered covered in 2000. By early 2001 we had just the tuition covered. And of course after 9/11, we had just 2 years tuition covered. Some shrewed investments, low cost PLUS loans and all is well, except the taxpayer is paying us to keep the remaining loans of $60,000.
And if we were to fund a kid today, born 18 years ago, We could never make it happen. The equity markets, property and housing markets have been flat for these past 10+ years. We had the fortunate presence to have gains of 10-12% , compounding. Not going to happen again for a longprime time.
-- Edited by longprime on Thursday 16th of February 2012 10:04:22 AM
-- Edited by longprime on Thursday 16th of February 2012 10:04:42 AM
Here's a thought: go somewhere affordable. I hate this idea that you need to go massively in debt for education. I went some where relatively low tiered because they offered me a lot of money. Why can't other people? I have literally zero sympathy for parents moaning about debt and very little for students-especially those who don't have jobs or spend all their job money on personal items rather than paying down loans.
I think I'm bitter about all the griping on the FA forum.
Glido, #16: "The article says that parents have an average debt of $34k. That seems like a huge number to me when you look at the average student debt, which I think is around $24k."
It is a lot worse than that! Those avereages including all of the rich families that are full pay (debt = $0) and all the many low-income kids who are full-ride (debt = $0) and a few merit and athletic scholarship kids (debt = $0).
So, the real number for the kids who actually have debt is a lot higher than the published number of the avereage for all students."
Personally, we are not wealthy, very middle income. Too bad I am unable to correct him.
Glido needs to study the tax code and investment principles. Those who are in the highest tax bracket should maximize student loans and use the saved cash for more lucretive investments.
-- Edited by longprime on Wednesday 15th of February 2012 03:51:28 PM
