Political & Elections

CelticClan07 · Senior Member

RE: Mitt Romney is the whitest man to run for president in recent memory

longprime · Guru

Time: 5:10pm PST.

I predict that Romney will lose Ohio. Religion will factor in as the deciding issue. Not that Santorium is a Catholic but because Ohio booted out the Mormons when Smith revealed the Book.

Cartera · Guru

He meant to say NASDAQ.

longprime · Guru

Mitt, Feb 27, in Dayton FL, at NASCAR, " I have some great friends who are NASCAR team owners." evileye

Anyone I may know? confuse

longprime · Guru

to have wealth.

longprime · Guru

RE: Mitt Romney is the whitest man to run for president in recent memory

Poetsheart · Senior Member

From the Times Editorial:

Romney seems to share his family’s remorseless drive to rise — whether it’s trying to persuade the French to give up wine and join his church, or building a business, or being willing to withstand heaps of abuse in pursuit of the presidency. He may have character flaws, but he does not have the character flaws normally associated with great wealth. His signature is focus and persistence. The wealth issue is a sideshow.

Wow, talk about railing against an argument that was never made. That's right, grab that straw man by the throat and shake his sorry ass until the corn cob pipe falls out of his mouth!

It's not going to work with voters. Sorry. Nice try, though.

winchester · Guru

It's not a sideshow for liberals.

The "little guy" vs. the "rich" is their raison d'être.

hope · Guru

The wealth issue is a sideshow.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/20/opinion/brooks-the-wealth-issue.html?_r=1&hp

winchester · Guru

Obama released his 2000-2006 Tax Returns on March 25, 2008.

He released his 2007 Tax Return on April 16, 2008.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/03/obama-releases.html
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2008/04/obama-releases.html

longprime · Guru

Mitt, Why wait till April?

Of course, you by then either have the nomination locked up or not. I think you are betting that you won't be the nominee, else you would release the info. Perhaps, you haven't filed for 2010? evileye

catahoula · Guru

And that illustrious senate record pretty much told anybody who didn't have their head in a really dark place everthing they needed to know about how well Obama was going to lead and govern - btw, don't look for any sarcasm in the preceding because it simply isn't there.

Not that I care for Romney - I'd prefer our free love advocate got the nomination - but there simply isn't anything more American than trying to minimize your tax bill, whether you're a democrat or republican.

Gore's itemized deductions were a priceless example.

longprime · Guru

why not release prior tax filings?

His business was the business of money.

We vet SupremeCourt Justices by their rulings if they were previously judges. We vetted BO on his experience as a Senator. Likewise Sarah Palin for VP as a governor.

MR should have anticipated revealing his returns. He's got everything to gain by showing us that the system works and everything to lose if he overly fudged the system. Besides he's had 6 years to make his tax filings "correct". evileye

Cartera · Guru

We don't know how much he gets from Bain now. It is thought he retained a profit interest in the company after he left.

hope · Guru

He hasn't been at Bain since 1998. He hasn't been investing for other people for a long time, if that's what you are trying to say.

He certainly is not obligated to release his returns going back to the '90's. That would be outrageous.

Cartera · Guru

As Mitt said, it is customary for them to be released around the April 15 tax filing time. Mitt is being pushed by fellow Republicans to do it earlier. The earlier he does it, the better for him because people will be sick of hearing about it before the general.

Much of his income did not come from him investing his own money into Bain. It came from something called "carried interest." Many, both Dems and Republicans, consider this a loophole because it is not a true investment and is more akin to wages for labor. Private equity managers get paid on a "2 and 20" basis. They get a fee of 2% for investing clients money and then they take 20% of the profits made on that investment. So if someone gives Mitt $50m to invest, he would get $1m management fee that would be taxed as income. If the investment makes $10m for the client, Mitt gets 20% that is taxed at 15%. The investor getting the 15% rate is designed to encourage investment. The manager getting the 15% rate is a little harder to defend.

longprime · Guru

Bain was/is a Partnership?

There are different rules for Partnerships for profits and loses?

longprime · Guru

its not that MR is paying 15%, it that he is hesitating in releasing his tax returns.

He's running for President. He's in the Money business. That business is by nature a opaque business. He's not coming across as being prepared for the 1040 release and being secretive about it. Shades of "Birth Certificate". evileye

Holding your breath? ashamed

CelticClan07 · Senior Member

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/mitt-romney-not-only-15-percenter-john-kerry-002350310.html

It's common among the high earners/investors. Posters here are smart, I'm very surprised anyone is surprised.

Who would pay more taxes if there are ways around it, legally which there are? I'd sure as heck squirrel my millions away anywhere and everywhere to avoid taxes. Most do in fact. Remember Warren Buffett saying he should pay more? Did he voluntarily send extra gazillions to the tax man?

A business talking head on CNN said that even if Romney paid the 15% tax rate on personal return, he like every other billionaire would have already been taxed 35% dividend investment rate. So does that mean the true tax rate is 50%? Hmmmmm...

I know I'm tired as heck of the wealthy being made out to be a bad guy/gal. Our country is upside down if we demonize success.

hope · Guru

From what I understand, Bain set up there to attract foreign investors. Romney is invested with Bain, a company he co-founded but hasn't been a part of since 1998. It's not exactly as if he's attempting to hide the money.

john doe · Guru

why else would you have accounts there, a known tax haven, if it isn't to avoid taxes?

john doe · Guru

I wonder how much he paid in taxes on his millions in the Cayman islands

hope · Guru

Hm. I wonder if O released his tax returns the January before he had locked the nomination. Just asking. Don't really feel like looking it up.

Okay I did look it up:

http://articles.cnn.com/2008-03-25/politics/obama.tax.returns_1_tax-returns-senator-obama-senator-clinton?_s=PM:POLITICS

As for Hillary:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/hillary_spokesperson_promises.php

I mentioned that MR was a founding partner of Bain because it seems logical to me he would put invest his money in his own former company. And since it is entirely legal, why not?

I'll leave the rest of the ins and outs to you, lp. I was an art history major.

-- Edited by hope on Thursday 19th of January 2012 12:18:48 PM

-- Edited by hope on Thursday 19th of January 2012 12:22:49 PM

hope · Guru

I admit my thought processes take leaps here and there, poet. It drives my husband nuts sometimes too. smile

If he didn't pay taxes on it, john doe, they'll be able to throw him in "the big house." wink

-- Edited by hope on Thursday 19th of January 2012 08:05:09 AM

Cartera · Guru

I don't care what he makes and wealth wouldn't influence my vote. I do love hearing him talk about it though.

I'd bet there were years that he paid no taxes, but I doubt we'll ever see evidence of it.

hope · Guru

Seems like only yesterday we were told we should be "focusing on the issues" if we attempted to dig deeper into O's personal life (Rev. Wright), relationships (Rezko), etc. In fact, it was absolutely sinister, dare I say racist, when we attempted to do so.

Times sure have changed! confuse

It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

Exactly:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2012/0118/Why-Mitt-Romney-s-15-percent-tax-rate-may-not-matter-in-the-long-run-video

Cartera · Guru

I suspect he's not looking forward to all of the offshore (Cayman Island) investments coming to light. That information is already out there but attention will be brought to it. The fact that Bain set up so many off shore accounts for more favorable tax treatment will also brought up once again.

They knew this was coming so they have had time to make some changes to ameliorate some things on this years returns. I don't think there is any way he will release anything other than one year.

longprime · Guru

RE: Fed Taxes

Poetsheart · Senior Member

Mitt Romney is the whitest man to run for president in recent memory

john doe · Guru

The dem tactic?? The republicans running against him are bringing up all kinds of issues similar to the "dem tactics"

hope · Guru

That's why we have another party. If you like your candidates just moderately rich, like the Obamas, then vote Democrat. If you like them thoroughly hypocritical over the issue of wealth, then vote Democrat. My personal opinion is that it makes the dems look ridiculous.

As a result, Obama has brought in more money from employees of banks, hedge funds and other financial service companies than all of the GOP candidates combined, according to a Washington Post analysis of contribution data.

But Obama has outdone Romney on his own turf, collecting $76,600 from Bain Capital employees through September — and he needed only three donors to do it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/obama-has-more-cash-from-financial-sector-than-gop-hopefuls-combined-data-show/2011/10/18/gIQAX4rAyL_story.html

A nice touch:

http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/new-obama-omb-director-bain-alum/317976

-- Edited by hope on Wednesday 18th of January 2012 07:38:59 AM

-- Edited by hope on Wednesday 18th of January 2012 08:06:44 AM

Poetsheart · Senior Member

Correction: Mitt's rubber chicken circuit actually netted him 374K+, not the 340K I stated earlier.

What kind of litmus test do dems demand now? That presidential hopefuls pay over and above what they are required to pay in taxes by law?

Wow, you really are good at moving the rhetorical goal posts, aren't you? Who here has argued that anyone should pay more taxes than that required by law, hope? Who? The over-arching issue is that the laws themselves greatly advantage those whose incomes primarily spring from investments, and capital gains, as such assets are typically taxed at only %15. The fact that the mega-rich typically garner most of their income in this fashion illustrates the need for a more equitable tax code. That Mitt Romeny, and The GOP as a party, advocate that folks like himself not be required to pay even a nickle more in federal taxes, and yet middle class tax payers (whose median annual income is little more than the 43K per hour that Mitt earned in speaking fees) should see their federal tax burden increase by as much as 1000K more, is going to be a problem for him. And well it should be.

hope · Guru

I would be willing to bet that Romney is and has been following the law regarding his taxes. What kind of litmus test do dems demand now? That presidential hopefuls pay over and above what they are required to pay in taxes by law? For how long before running? Ten years? Five years? As I said, you guys are embarrassing yourselves. I'm pretty sure the most sophisticated among you know it's a joke. I realize you never let a chance to demagogue class warfare go to waste, but this is going to backfire. Most people will see it for what it is, and it does not reflect well on the dem party.

Now if he has some money stashed away offshore or something, it's another issue, but I tend to doubt he's that stupid. ;)

-- Edited by hope on Tuesday 17th of January 2012 09:34:24 PM

Poetsheart · Senior Member

I guess it's more socially just to inherit it (Roosevelts, Kennedy) or marry into it (Kerry) than to earn it?

My lord, we're electing a president, not a martyr to the cause. This latest dem tactic is just embarrassing.

Yeah, go ahead and make this issue something other than what it really is, hope. Being rich is not Mitt's problem: It's the fact that he stands as the poster child for all those who make more money than God, and yet pay less, as a percentage of income (sometimes far less), in federal taxes than the average Middle class American, whose annual income is 7 times less than the 340k "not very much" that Mitt made on the rubber chicken circuit last year. That's where the rubber really meets the road. It just doesn't look good that the corporate raider that pink slipped thousands of workers, leaving them suddenly destitute of income, or health care benefits, has the unmitigated gall to say aloud to such that 340k is "not very much", even if it does represent only a small percentage of his overall annual income. Repubs love to crow about how "out- of-touch Barack Obama is, but I think he'd be hard pressed to exceed Mitt on the Out-Of-Touch Meter.

-- Edited by Poetsheart on Tuesday 17th of January 2012 09:13:19 PM

soccerguy315 · Guru

john doe: all the other politicians are out of touch with the real world too

hell, if your name is Kennedy you can kill people and nothing happens.

hope · Guru

I guess it's more socially just to inherit it (Roosevelts, Kennedy) or marry into it (Kerry) than to earn it?

My lord, we're electing a president, not a martyr to the cause. This latest dem tactic is just embarrassing.

john doe · Guru

This is a guy who is seriously out of touch with the real world:

Mitt Romney said Tuesday that the $374,327.62 he earned for speaking engagements between February 2010 and February 2011 was "not very much" money.

Mitt Romney

"I got a little bit of income from my book, but I gave that all away. Then, I get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much," Romney said, according to multiple reports.

Cartera · Guru

Lots of "shoulds" in that post. That's the problem.

Razorsharp · Guru

It's funny how liberals claim that race should not matter and that all races should be treated equally, but they are the first to see every aspect of the world in terms of race. Actually, it's sad not funny.

Cartera · Guru

the Barack Obama years, far from being the way forward, are in fact a historical aberration, a tear in the white space-time continuum.

That says it perfectly. I know, and am related to, many people who feel exactly that way, and they aren't afraid to say it.

john doe · Guru

amazing - and I thought he was part mexican

hope · Guru

This is absolutely astonishing:

Of course, I’m not talking about a strict count of melanin density. I’m referring to the countless subtle and not-so-subtle ways he telegraphs to a certain type of voter that he is the cultural alternative to America’s first black president. It is a whiteness grounded in a retro vision of the country, one of white picket fences and stay-at-home moms and fathers unashamed of working hard for corporate America.

In the New York Times. It's amazing they would even print this. Well, maybe not.

http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/14/whats-race-got-to-do-with-it/