As far as Romney is concerned, I'm sure that if he becomes president, he will not be doing most of what he claims he wants to do for a number of reasons:
1. He doesn't really believe them and is just saying whatever he can to get through the primaries.
2. He isn't a leader and has absolutely no charisma - a neccessity for leadership. He's a manager type. In this way he is exactly like Obama who's primary failings have been lack of leadership in what he believes in. So expect 4 more years of the same regardless of who's elected.
Soccerguy: I'm indeed older than you and have children your age. I'm just a few years away from retirement and am greatly concerned about social security and medicare. However, in regards to the deficit, the house was burning down and you don't worry about a few years down the line until the fire is put out. It still hasn't been put out and won't be for a number of years. I understand your frustration but many of the issues facing us are demographic in nature and would be occurring regardless even with what happened in 2008. Every generation has had issues to do with - mine was Vietnam, my father's were the depression and WW2. In the end things will work out.
GDP in the USA has grown every quarter since Q3 2009. How long do we have to keep up the unsustainable government spending that is adding over $1 trillion/year to the deficit? http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdp_glance.htm
I don't know how old you are, so perhaps you are not concerned with the deficit because you will die before it becomes a major issue, but I am only 26 and this is very important for people that are my age.
I don't think it's fair to try to use government policy to take us to 2000 or 2007 either, because both of those were bubbles that did not accurate reflect the economic situation. Your house shouldn't double in value in 10 years. That's not how the economy is supposed to work. We should not be inflating bubble after bubble that we cannot sustain.
No what I'm saying is you don't drive an economy into another recession or depression by cutting back spending.
Let me be very explicit here. I want you or anybody else here to show me instances where any developed large country has pulled out of a recession without increasing the deficit by spending. You can even show me instances where they didn't increase taxes - something that Reagan did and GH Bush did and which Romney will due if he is elected President.
House Republicans introduced a new budget plan this week called "The Path to Prosperity."
(CNN) -- This week, Republicans announced their new budget with a highly produced video full of great rhetoric and patriotic music, but one major piece of Americana is missing -- a single mention of the middle class.
The narrator, House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan, had promised to offer a "path to prosperity" but instead introduces economic policies that represent a dead end for America's middle class and American manufacturing. Rarely has a budget been so brazen about protecting the richest and most powerful at the expense of the rest.
Ryan, considered by many to be an ideological leader of conservative thought, correctly asserts that this is a moment for America to choose between different futures. He then outlines the conservative vision that Americans have rejected over and over again -- increasing U.S. debt through special deals to protect the most powerful corporations and dumping that burden onto the already struggling middle class.
Though Ryan's plan has deliberately avoided explaining how the tax numbers add up, in order to pay for the massive tax cuts at the top, everyone else would have to pay more. It's likely that a middle-class family with two kids making about $70,000 a year would pay about $1,150 more in income tax, according to calculations made by the Center for American Progress. That's an 80% increase over what they pay now, while millionaires will pay less. That same family currently receives about $5,500 worth of federal support from K-12 education, transportation, health and science research, consumer safety, natural resource protections and federal law enforcement. The GOP budget would cut these "nondefense discretionary spending" by about 25%, taking away a typical family's services and protections by about $1,400 per year. To borrow a phrase from Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, these budget priorities are truly "of the 1%, by the 1% and for the 1%."
House Republicans further threaten the middle class by rewarding companies for sending American jobs overseas. They want to revive the outsourcing loopholes that Democrats, including myself, have fought hard to close. These loopholes would exempt overseas profits from taxes, creating a greater incentive to relocate investments to other countries and leaving more of the tax burden to our middle class.
But this goes beyond economics to our values. Why else would Father Thomas Kelly, a constituent of Ryan's and a Catholic priest, be moved to note his disappointment with the "cruel budget plan" that doesn't match the Catholic teaching of "justice for the poor and economic fairness"?
The Republicans' budget video shows a suburban family arriving home in a Volkswagen, rather than a Chrysler or a Buick. One can logically conclude that this was a self-conscious decision not to use a product of the American auto industry that their party and likely nominee, Mitt Romney, said should be allowed to die.
The Republicans present a hypothetical choice going forward, but this reminds Americans that there were real choices already made over the last few years -- whether to let America crash into a Depression, permit our auto industry to fail or let Medicare for senior citizens become insolvent by 2017. At each of these points, as now, conservatives have put the political gain of making Barack Obama a one-term president by opposing his efforts to save the economy and fix Medicare, ahead of making tough decisions to protect the middle class and senior citizens.
The Republican budget is not a cruel joke. It is the very real and logical result of the economic theory that conservatives from Ryan to Romney embrace -- that it is the richest Americans who create jobs and add to the economy, not the middle class.
This is not a "bold and right" call for shared sacrifice as Romney suggested of last year's similar budget. It is simply forcing the middle class and senior citizens to take a hit to protect corporate subsidies and tax breaks for the rich and powerful. Many, including myself, had hoped for big ideas, but instead we got a new turn on an old congressional one -- a bridge to nowhere for 99% of Americans.
R's and Romney are now creating a box for themselves that they will regret in the future. They are against so many things in the Keynesian economic theory that they cannot use that model when their time comes.
I suspect that many here do not understand how deep this recession was and how long its going to take to play out. If there wasn't any stimulus, it would have been much much worse. Regardless of who is elected in Nov, we have many more years to have a full recovery.
The Great Recession is still being played out. Europe is being restructured. China growth rate is slowing and face political challenges. The next administration, whom ever it may be, will not have easy answers.
(says my fortune cookie)
If you thought the stimuli was going to do a lot, your understanding of how bad this recession is limited.
"The National Debt has now increased more during President Obama's three years and two months in office than it did during 8 years of the George W. Bush presidency. The Debt rose $4.899 trillion during the two terms of the Bush presidency. It has now gone up $4.939 trillion since President Obama took office."
Yeah because he had to clean up Bush's mess that would have lead to a depression.
Two wars and Medicare D, the gift that never keeps giving - if you're looking to claim it's all someone elses fault that is. The fact democrats voted for all three is always conveniently ignored, which I suppose only seems strange to those who aren't one.
Won't speak to the "spending as percent of GDP" chart - it isn't clear to me where the smoking gun is in it - but the other one, the "growth in per capita" one, seemed interesting enough to look up it's provenance.
The complaints on Thomas' blog centered mainly on...
- source of the data he used.
- whether "one-time, off-budget" spending was included.
- that liberal spending is truly the gift that keeps on giving (Johnson's Great Society spending exponentially growing long, long, after he was dead and gone.
... none of which seem to have been answered or addressed.
The National Debt has now increased more during President Obama's three years and two months in office than it did during 8 years of the George W. Bush presidency. The Debt rose $4.899 trillion during the two terms of the Bush presidency. It has now gone up $4.939 trillion since President Obama took office.
From CBS, no less: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57400369-503544/national-debt-has-increased-more-under-obama-than-under-bush/
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It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” – Mark Twain
For example, years 2002-2007, Gov spending vs GDP. What happened in this time period? Two wars with the W administration financing by fiscally selling bonds (buyers are non-USA) ("debt doesn't matter", DC), FRB stimulating economy monetarily in low interest rates for a false economy.
I think people see this graph, 'wrongly'. They see 2008-current without considering what caused the run-up. And the see 2002-2007 without understanding how this came about. Notice my squinty eye . Everything is blurry and thus I see things clearly.
"Mitt Romney, John Kerry: Economic Platforms Similar"
Are you really serious? Is this supposed to be an honest piece trying to show the shocking similarities of the two candidates,? Really? Oh, I'm so horrified, the truth is out!
Hey, here's something a little more challenging for you. Find a candidate in the last couple of decades (in either party) who didn't talk about improving the economy, creating good jobs, cutting taxes for corporations and the middle class, cutting the deficit, improving life for workers and reducing the size of government. Such generic promises, that's what they all say if they want to get elected.
The difference is, Mitt Romney more likely actually means it. Unlike our current president, who promised it all, and is now helping the economy plummet and lose jobs, is salivating to raise taxes, skyrocketed the deficit, is definitely making life tougher for workers and massively increased the size of the federal government. No recession going on in Washington DC.
NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Mitt Romney seems to be echoing some of John Kerry's economic message from the 2004 election.
Kerry, who in 2004 was the Democratic nominee for president, campaigned heavily against President George W. Bush's record for slow-growth recovery and pledged to deliver an economic plan that would provide jobs and strong growth.
John Kerry
"It is a plan that puts and keeps good-paying jobs at the heart of our economy," said Kerry in 2004.
Romney made a similar comment when he released a jobs and economic plan in September 2011.
"[W]e will right the economy, create good jobs, and restore the promise of the future," Romney said.
Kerry 2004: "As president, John Kerry will cut taxes for businesses that create jobs here in America instead of moving them overseas."
Romney 2012: "The U.S. economy's 35 percent corporate tax rate is among the highest in the industrial world, reducing the ability of our nation's businesses to compete in the global economy and to invest and create jobs at home."
Middle-Class Taxes:
Kerry 2004: "When John Kerry is president, middle-class taxes will go down. Ninety-eight percent of all Americans and 99 percent of American businesses will get a tax cut under the Kerry-Edwards plan."
Romney 2012: "Make permanent, across-the-board 20 percent cut in marginal rates. ...With 54 percent of private sector workers employed outside of corporations, individual rates also define the incentives for job-creating businesses."
Washington on a Budget:
Kerry 2004: "John Kerry will cut the deficit in half during his first four years in office. ... [A]nd impose a real cap to keep spending in check."
Romney 2012: "As president, Mitt's goal will be to bring federal spending below 20 percent of GDP by the end of his first term.
Skilled Labor:
Kerry 2004: "And this requires a bigger, skilled labor force to make them. John Kerry and John Edwards believe we should invest in these jobs and invest in the people who will fill them."
Romney 2012: "Jump-starting economic growth therefore requires that American workers have the skills that are needed to unleash their potential. One of the troubling features of the American economy today is the mismatch between the skill set of the American workforce and the requirements of the employment market."
Size of Government:
Kerry 2004: "They [Kerry and Edwards] want to expand the reach of opportunity, not the size of government.
Romney 2012: "The mission to restore America to health begins with reducing the size of the federal government and getting our fiscal house in order."
Part of Kerry's campaign pitch in 2004 depended on less-than-stellar economic recovery after the early 2000s recession to prove the first Bush administration had failed the American people. Much like the Massachusetts senator, Romney is depending on a similar message to sway voters to his corner.
A problem Kerry encountered, though, was a gradual uptick in the economy throughout 2004, including an early surprise of jobs growth in May of that year.
Ahead of January's jobs report, which came out in early February, Romney wrote an open letter to Obama in The Detroit News to voice his displeasure with the country's unemployment.
"We have now had 35 consecutive months of unemployment over 8 percent, the longest such stretch since the Great Depression." Romney wrote on Jan. 27.
It appears that the former Massachusetts governor harkens the same history as Kerry too, as the then-Democratic front-runner released a statement after the larger-than-expected job growth number in May 2004: "[It] is still in the worst job recovery since the Great Depression."
Solace Romney could draw from Kerry's 2004 loss is that exit polls revealed that the prevailing issue on voters' minds at the polls were moral values, not jobs and the economy.
I am particularly enjoying the fact that Mitt's people won't dare let him speak without a teleprompter unless it is impossible to get him in front of one. I haven't heard much about that from the Obama/teleprompter screamers. Poor Mitt has to let his wife speak longer and longer before him so people will be thinking "human" when he takes the podium.
The rich are creating jobs left and right, just think how many more they could create if they didn't pay anything. I'm surprised there aren't any republicans who are suggesting that for incomes above 250k, that taxes should be eliminated. I'm sure then we could grow as fast as China.
I think its stupid to give any credence to any tax proposals other than "tax reform". How can any candidate/President do anything else?
We still have W's tax cut, at least until the end of the year, and you know what...I haven't seen it work well for the last 3 years-Are the wealthy and rich spending?
Romney Tax Cut Proposal Relies on Rapid Growth Paired With Missing Details
By Richard Rubin - Feb 24, 2012 10:11 AM ET
Mitt Romney at a Tea Party event at the Bakers of Milford Banquet Hall on Feb. 23, 2012 in Michigan. Photographer: Scott Olson/Getty Images
Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney’s plan to cut income tax rates by 20 percent without increasing the U.S. budget deficit relies on unspecified assumptions about economic growth and unannounced details about the tax breaks he would curtail.
The details that Romney hasn’t released will matter as he seeks to claim the mantle of fiscal responsibility while cutting taxes by more than $4 trillion over the next decade.
Specific proposals for curbing breaks can hurt the taxpayers who rely on them. Spending cuts can affect core government services. Relying on growth caused by tax cuts is an uncertain strategy that government scorekeepers don’t employ.
“Everyone would agree that cutting rates and getting rid of some preferences would increase economic growth,” said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan research organization in Washington. “We’d recoup some of the revenues. But how much? How quickly? Would it last?”
The former Massachusetts governor’s tax proposals could cost the Treasury about $4 trillion to $6.2 trillion in forgone revenue over the next decade, compared with extending tax rates that expire at the end of 2012. The lower estimate is based on figures from the bipartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget and the higher figure comes from the Center for American Progress, a Washington group often aligned with Democrats.
Romney announced his revised tax plan on Feb. 22 amid criticism from fellow Republicans that he wasn’t being bold enough in proposing to overhaul the tax code. He is speaking today at the Detroit Economic Club, four days before the Michigan Republican primary.
Rate Reduction
He now says he wants to extend all of the expiring tax cuts, and reduce individual income tax rates 20 percent beyond that, putting the top rate at 28 percent and the bottom rate at 8 percent, down from 35 percent and 10 percent today.
Romney’s plan would retain the 15 percent top rates for capital gains and dividends while eliminating taxes on investment income for those making less than $200,000 a year. It would repeal investment taxes and other levies in the 2010 health-care law. The estate tax would be repealed, along with the alternative minimum tax, a parallel tax system designed to prevent high-income taxpayers from legally avoiding taxes.
For businesses, Romney would drop the corporate tax rate to 25 percent from 35 percent and make permanent the research and development tax credit.
Raising Taxes
“He has identified all of the things that would cut taxes and none of the things that would raise taxes,” said Michael Linden, director of tax and budget policy at the Center for American Progress.
Romney has called for spending cuts that would reach $500 billion a year by 2016. Also, he is proposing longer-term changes to limit Social Security and Medicare spending.
In the Feb. 22 announcement, Romney’s campaign said the plan would broaden the nation’s individual tax base by limiting deductions, exemptions and credits, particularly for high-income taxpayers. It also said the corporate tax base would be broadened.
Still, it’s unclear how much revenue could be raised by limits on tax expenditures. In his 2013 budget plan, President Barack Obama proposed raising about $750 billion over the next decade from reducing tax breaks for married couples making more than $250,000 a year and individuals making more than $200,000.
Most Expensive Breaks
Each of the most expensive tax breaks -- employer-sponsored health care, charitable contributions, home mortgage interest and state and local taxes -- has influential constituencies, Williams said.
“Once you take the things off the table that are off the table,” Williams said, “back of the envelope I could not come up with a way to do it.”
Whatever deficit reduction can’t be achieved by broadening the tax base and making spending cuts would come from economic growth. In a Feb. 22 conference call with reporters, Romney adviser Glenn Hubbard said the “precise estimates” of such growth would be released later. The campaign isn’t asserting that the tax cuts pay for themselves.
“Offering gimmicky proposals that rely on implausible levels of economic growth and blow huge holes in the budget is easy,” Romney wrote in the Wall Street Journal yesterday. “Fixing our very serious problems is not.”
Feedback Effects
Hubbard described the feedback effects of the tax cuts as “very large” for corporate rates because those changes would encourage more investment in the U.S. For individuals, he said, there are “substantial” effects in higher tax brackets from lower marginal rates.
Economists and tax analysts disagree as to how much of the apparent revenue loss of a tax cut is made up with more robust economic growth, and the debate on the issue has been lingering for decades, through tax reductions and tax increases.
The estimates are sensitive to assumptions about reactions from workers, investors and the Federal Reserve. They also depend on whether the tax cut is deficit-financed or its cost covered by spending reductions.
The Joint Committee on Taxation, the nonpartisan scorekeeper for Congress, doesn’t include the growth effects of tax cuts in its estimates. It sometimes provides those estimates to lawmakers.
Expiring Tax Cuts
For example, the two-year extension of expiring tax cuts at the end of 2010 cost the U.S. government $858 billion in revenue over 10 years. Depending upon assumptions as to whether the tax cuts would be accompanied by spending reductions and on possible Fed reaction, estimates of the extension’s cost were between $719 billion and $1.05 trillion.
Tax cuts on capital income, such as the corporate income tax, produce more significant feedback effects than do cuts to taxes on labor, said Matthew Weinzierl, an assistant professor at Harvard Business School who co-wrote a paper on the subject with Gregory Mankiw, a Romney adviser.
Over 10 years, the government can expect to recapture about 30 percent of the revenue from tax cuts on capital income and about 10 percent to 15 percent from tax cuts on labor, he said.
“They would be wise to be cautious about claiming too much feedback effect,” said Weinzierl, who is unaffiliated with any presidential candidate.
Linden said the experience of the past two decades -- when the budget deficit rose after the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts were enacted and shrank after the 1993 tax increase -- demonstrates the perils of trying to link tax rates with economic growth.
‘No Evidence’
“When you get good growth, there obviously is a feedback effect,” he said. “There is no evidence whatsoever that reducing taxes on the wealthy will cause that.”
Douglas Holtz-Eakin, who advised Republican presidential nominee John McCain in 2008, said he expects no more than one- third of the cost of the tax cut could be recouped through growth.
He said the Romney campaign can probably hit its targets on broadening the tax base, though some of those changes could be politically difficult.
“There’s some advantage to not being specific about that,” said Holtz-Eakin, who isn’t affiliated with a Republican candidate this year. “When you’re specific, you run the risk of ticking some people off. On the other hand, the more specific you are, the more you have a mandate to implement it.”
Here's. an idea, Microsoft has > 50$B cash and Apple has
>75$B cash making practicably nothing in interest in banks that won't lend.
Suppose we make another law or tax to get them to spend their cash.?
I kinda like the idea in annexing Canada,
soccer, do you think Santorum or Romney would do that?
Truth be told, I haven't heard him really speak about economic issues much at all. Again, I haven't been following it all that closely though.
At this point, I'm really not convinced that any of the candidates (on either side) are going to much for the economy. Again, I'm more worried about their ability to veto, approve, etc.
-- Edited by romanigypsyeyes on Tuesday 21st of February 2012 09:01:19 PM
candidate Obama had some very good economic ideals... he was against raising the debt limit, promised a spending cut, and promised to reduce the deficit by half in his first 4 years. President Obama does different things.
This country is going to half to make hard choices. And they are going to involve social security and medicare/medicaid. Even if you cut ALL the "discretionary" spending, which would include all of DOD, you still don't balance the budget (at least, I don't think you do... would have to check the numbers again to make sure).
The Stimulus was a general failure, in my opinion, because almost none of the money went to things that would actually stimulate the economy. It has also missed every unemployment benchmark that we were promised.
-- Edited by soccerguy315 on Tuesday 21st of February 2012 08:58:59 PM
While some may feel Victor Hansen's a pessimitic hack, he mostly sums up whats bothering a portion of the US electorate:
In California gas is already over $4 a gallon — in an off-peak February, amid slow growth and high unemployment. What it will be during the summer driving season and if there is a tiny upturn in the economy — or as the Gulf of Hormuz heats up — we can only guess. Once more trying to release some oil from the strategic petroleum reserve — while putting new leases off limits in the west, in Alaska, offshore, and in the gulf, coupled with the Keystone cancellation — is not going to do much. Putin killed the Russian reset and wants everyone to know it. The Arab Spring is a bitter winter. There is no Libyan model for Syria. Mexico blames us for its own gun violence (despite guns flowing to the cartels from all over the world), and is suing an American state to force it not to enforce U.S. immigration law. It seems to think that 11 million of its nationals who entered the U.S. illegally and with Mexican government encouragement must be de facto American citizens — given their lucrative multibillion-dollar remittances.
Germany is getting to the point that it would rather write off the $400 billion than listen to chronic Greek slurs and whining; what Greeks rioters will do when they get their wish and have their drachma no one knows, but the country will soon be de-Europeanized. For now it is sorta doing to Germany what Germany did to its creditors in the 1920s. As for the EU: Once Greece implodes, nothing is off the table. It seems more like 1936 than 2012 in Europe. A U.S. that ran up $5 trillion debt in three years is in no position either to sermonize or to help much. Turkey, our newfound close ally, has warned us not to share NATO intelligence and de facto now has a free hand in the Eastern Mediterranean.
Conspicously absent are the Susan Kommen / Planned Parenthood flap and the problem Catholic institutions have with subsidizing birth control, which suggests he hasn't a clue as to what's most significant to the rest of voters.
-- Edited by catahoula on Tuesday 21st of February 2012 06:49:05 AM
I have never voted my pocketbook and am not about to start now. However, I believe the person who will best handle the economy is in place right now. I do not believe that this is the right time to slash spending. I believe that the measures the conservatives are calliing for will do more harm than good. President Obama, with the help of President Bush in the beginning, brought us from the brink. Things have improved and that is with the Republicans doing everything they can to sabotage any kind of recovery so they can achieve their number one goal. I think we'd be much further along had the President been able to implement more of the remedies he wanted. When we focus on nothing but spending, we sacrifice growth and that is what it will take to get us to reasonable spending.
opened a small fund end od Dec., Primarily for DS/future gchildren college fund/possible supplemental retirement/ guaranteed ROI competitive to medium term bonds: In two months its up 8.5%. I will reallocated when its up 15/20%. Yes, its about economics. And it looks a lot better now than Feb 2009.
I hate Change. It hurts my retirement planning.
I am afraid none of the candidates who are front-runners are man enough to do the work necessary to cut spending and bring us back to reasonable spending levels.
Economics should be the driving force in this election.
Social conservatives are losing out. It's obvious. The only question is will their views be politically unacceptable in 2 years or 5 years or 10 years? The younger generation in this country has spoken very strongly on social issues.
For this reason, I will be voting for who I think is going to try to reel in the unsustainable spending that we have seen over the last 12 years. If said person has socially conservative views, I will still vote for that person because I know their conservative social views are losing out in society.
I think the mentality is what scares me, cat. It legitimately scares me. I don't want someone with that mentality to have approval and veto power. And he is a very divisive person which could lead to far more problems.
While I can't recall the last time any one of those hard fought rights that we've enjoyed for the last 40 or so years has been circumscribed, I can see quite well the path we're on, economically speaking, and I find the idea of voting to re-elect our sitting president because you're worried some Republican neanderthal is going to take away women's shoes and hand them a stirring spoon to be beyond depressing.
Better start looking for a dedicated revenue stream for all those social bennies.
winchester, I honestly don't know. I really like what I know about Olympia Snowe. Albeit, it's not a huge, huge amount. She seems to be a very centrist Republican and I think she could easily defeat Obama. I also think she could help bridge the extreme tension that exists between Dems and Reps and actually get us moving towards the right track again. From what I know of her, I would easily vote for her over Obama simply because I think she would have more bipartisan support.
But I probably just like her cause she's pretty socially liberal.
I agree Cartera. Honestly, I would run to the polls as soon as they opened to vote for Obama if Santorum is the R's candidate. I would also vote for any 3rd party candidate, including Trump to take away his R numbers like Perot and Nader did yrs before.
I was never a Newt supporter, and never will be, but at least for him, I would stay at home and let the nation fight it out because if it was him or Obama I would be voting for one I could hold my nose for, and never support either one.
__________________
Raising a teenager is like nailing Jello to a tree
Of course he's entitled to his beliefs but his beliefs are the foundation of his efforts to interfere with others' personal freedom. His support of the Personhood Amendment is a prime example. I shudder to think about whom he would appoint to the Supreme Court.
I don't find it scary in the least. He is entitled to his religious beliefs. Although I do not agree with him, at least he has a core set of beliefs that he is willing to stand or fall with, lile Paul but unlike Romney or Gingrich.
I just find it scary that there are that many people living in the same country I do who support Santorum. I'm hoping that it is that most of them really don't know much about him but are along for the ride. I am particularly befuddled by women who support him.