Political & Elections

I read an article years and years ago about historical shifts in fuel use, major ones such as wood to mined coal, for example and while I don't recall much of it I can say that none of them occurred due to government mandate.

Fossil fuels are still too cheap and renewables are still too expensive for users to drive a shift.

SamuraiLandshark wrote:

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New technology is expensive. Absolutely true.

However, when so many jobs - those shovel ready ones, also - are tied into this new technology, the pain is very real when the jobs don't materialize and make an already suffering economy, worse.

There will always be corruption.  There will also be unreasonable expectations of what kind of return there will be, when making estimates.  You may not be a Stossel watcher, but there was an interesting segment on his show the other day about the "Battle for Brooklyn". 

http://blogs.laweekly.com/stylecouncil/2011/08/battle_for_brooklyn_redevelopm.phpW

What I find interesting about this situation is that it is a redevelopment project that was supposed to revitalize the area.  They tore down homes and businesses, citing eminent domain, and community blight.  The question was, whether or not it truly was blighted, or just corrupt bureaucrats and a developer with an agenda that made this happen. 

Supposedly there would be jobs with the redevelopment in Brooklyn, but what happened instead was that far fewer jobs materialized due to how they eventually decided to redevelop.  

How does this correlate to the Green jobs that were supposed to be the backbone of the revitatlization of our country's economy?  We all heard the President say that during the campaign.  We saw it in his speeches early in the administration.  Much money was to be spent on creating the infrastucture to build these jobs...and they haven't really materialized, have they?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/25/barack-obama-green-economy-environment

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122601449992806743.html

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 Correct, the jobs have not materialized SLS. Can it be because people aren't running to buy the poducts that 'Green Jobs' produce? Here is a timely example: http://jalopnik.com/5846097/is-the-chevy-volt-a-sales-flop

New technology is expensive. Absolutely true.

However, when so many jobs - those shovel ready ones, also - are tied into this new technology, the pain is very real when the jobs don't materialize and make an already suffering economy, worse.

There will always be corruption.  There will also be unreasonable expectations of what kind of return there will be, when making estimates.  You may not be a Stossel watcher, but there was an interesting segment on his show the other day about the "Battle for Brooklyn". 

http://blogs.laweekly.com/stylecouncil/2011/08/battle_for_brooklyn_redevelopm.phpW

What I find interesting about this situation is that it is a redevelopment project that was supposed to revitalize the area.  They tore down homes and businesses, citing eminent domain, and community blight.  The question was, whether or not it truly was blighted, or just corrupt bureaucrats and a developer with an agenda that made this happen. 

Supposedly there would be jobs with the redevelopment in Brooklyn, but what happened instead was that far fewer jobs materialized due to how they eventually decided to redevelop.  

How does this correlate to the Green jobs that were supposed to be the backbone of the revitatlization of our country's economy?  We all heard the President say that during the campaign.  We saw it in his speeches early in the administration.  Much money was to be spent on creating the infrastucture to build these jobs...and they haven't really materialized, have they?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/25/barack-obama-green-economy-environment

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122601449992806743.html

Soccerguy: You're right.  We are on the same page with "more of the same."

Celtic:  I'd say we were done with each other a long time ago.  

 

jazzy wrote:

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Tom, that's the whole point of what I've posted, starting with my first comment. 

Tell it to soccerguy, celtic. 

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are you serious?  did you see in the OP where I wrote "hope and change = more of the same"

exactly what "more of the same" did you think I was referencing if it wasn't the Bush administration giving its big time supporters big benefits from taxpayer money?

"Tonight is a great victory for the American people," Pelosi said in a late-night speech in Washington. "Today the American people voted for change, and they voted for Democrats to take our country in a new direction."

"The American people voted to restore integrity and honesty in Washington, D.C., and the Democrats intend to lead the most honest, most open and most ethical Congress in history," Pelosi said

Crooked? Nah, Pelosi's just one of the fortunate... one of those who can claim the most ridiculous things and skate right on through, secure in the knowledge that her enablers don't care she's an embarrassment to both them and their cause.

Is there really any doubt that both sides reward their supporters. Is anyone really ready to argue that one of the political parties is pure as the driven snow.

Nope.

Of course, now that the shoe is on the other foot, I do expect the party on the griddle to accept the coming storm of investigations and bad press with the same hunger for the truth they showed back in the bad old day's of Darth Cheney and his sidekick.

"Tom, that's the whole point of what I've posted, starting with my first comment."

Hmm, that's not convincing. It would have been more believeable with examples from both sides instead of a rehash of the accusations against Dick Cheney. A man who has been a heartbeat away from death, all he cares about is money, money, and power (seems strange he opted out of running for president from the beginning, that evil, callous man who just wanted to enrich himself and his buddies, at the expense of the taxpayers....therefore the entire reason for the war, and on, and on).

To get off topic, this thread brings back memories of one of President Obama's lesser campaign moments, where he proudly declared his idea that there should be a civilian army in Iraq and Afghanistan, doing the work so our soldiers didn't have to. He didn't talk about that much later (apparently someone informed him about the tens of thousands of contractors already there, and of course we never talk about the huge body count of civilian contractors over the years, they are only spoken of in a disdainful tone....as if it's so much better to have a young soldier in harms way than a retired Army Ranger who is actually getting paid a decent salary). If I worked for Haliburton I would never vote for someone who had smeared my company so often for political gain, while I was working my butt off, away from my family and in harms way.

Tom1944 wrote:

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Is there really any doubt that both sides reward their supporters. Is anyone really ready to argue that one of the political parties is pure as the driven snow.

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 Absolutely no argument from me Tom.  Anyone who thinks otherwise has to be 1. Partisan beyond repair or 2. Delusional.

Is there really any doubt that both sides reward their supporters. Is anyone really ready to argue that one of the political parties is pure as the driven snow.

So what. Halliburton delivered services that can't be delivered by many other companies. Clinton relied on Halliburton all the time and gave it sole source contracts as well because Halliburton is extremely good. Halliburton is a serious company that delivered quality services. Solyndra is a scam company that professionals told the Obama administration not to invest in but it did so to appease democratic supporters and favor crooked Democrats like Pelosi. It is bull s-hit to suggest Halliburton is like Solyndra and it is bull s-hit to suggest Halliburton got favors because of Cheney. In big companies you are bound to have a few bad actors, but the reality is that Halliburton is a very skilled and competent business. Even the Red Cross has had scandles created by a few people, but it remains a good organization. Solyndra was crooked from at the top and the Obama administration should have known better. A special prosecutor should be appointed and people put in jail over this theft of taxpayer money.

Cheney had no ownership interest or other form of benefit from Halliburton when he became VP. Liberals falsely associate him with Halliburton when he in fact had no association.

  Politically connected get preference for government contracts/programs.   Stop the presses....it's, it's unprecedented.   Or not.

• While the Bush Administration calls for the immediate disbanding of what it has labeled "private" and "illegal" militias in Lebanon and Iraq, it is pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into its own global private mercenary army tasked with protecting US officials and institutions overseas. The secretive program, which spans at least twenty-seven countries, has been an incredible jackpot for one heavily Republican-connected firm in particular: Blackwater USA.
• Halliburton, Bechtel could be factors in border security plan - Top Stories - "It's the big boys that will benefit from this," said Congressman Ed Pastor, a Phoenix Democrat. "Most of the big contracts are going to go out to the Halliburtons and Bechtels."
• Halliburton CEO's stock rises by $78 million since Iraq invasion - War and skyrocketing oil prices have been good to Halliburton's CEO David Lesar, whose stock in the company increased by an estimated $78 million since the U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003, a HalliburtonWatch analysis reveals. - On September 1, three days after Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, he sold stock pursuant to his stock option plan, earning a one-day profit of $720,100. One week later, on September 8, he similarly earned a one-day profit of $782,000 by selling stock.
• The Spoils of War - Halliburton subsidiary KBR got $12 billion worth of exclusive contracts for work in Iraq. But even more shocking is how KBR spent some of the money. Former U.S. Army Corps of Engineers official Bunnatine Greenhouse is blowing the whistle on the Dick Cheney–linked company's profits of war - As for learning the real extent of malfeasance in Iraq, that may never happen. The Republican majority in both houses of Congress seems disinclined to hold more hearings—or to exercise the subpoena power that only the majority wields. All the Democrats can do is shake their fists.
• Big money subverts democracy, Timken tells $2,000 donors - Hosting a $2,000-per-person event Monday featuring Vice President Dick Cheney, Timken told an audience of Cleveland's wealthiest business and civic leaders that such money was intended to "subvert democracy" and was an "attempt to buy democracy."
• Defense CEOs Big Winners
• BP Oil Cashes in on Iraq Invasion
• In Bed with Bush – The Bechtel Story - “A little research into the history of the Bechtel Corp reveals almost a 'classroom example' of how the links between big business and government work”
• Bechtel tied to bin Ladens
• Bechtel Wins $700 Million Iraq Invasion Contract A Cheney Company. Bush family friend George Schultz is on the board.
• Bechtel Bid Under Scrutiny
• The Bechtel Bin Laden Connection
• Well-connected and wealthy: Bechtel wins from Saddam's demise - Few companies represent the corporate face of the Bush administration quite like Bechtel of San Francisco. And few - Vice-President Dick Cheney's old company, Halliburton, is the only possible competitor - were quite so identified with the drive to overthrow Saddam Hussein, starting months before the US-led invasion began.
• Defense Dept Secretly Tapped Halliburton Unit To Operate Iraq's Oil Industry In Nov
• Haliburton Wins  Iraq Contract - With No Competitive Bidding. Another Cheney Company
• Haliburton; All in the Family
• Halliburton Contract Goes Beyond Fires
• Halliburton's Access of Evil
• Shadow Over the Oil Fields
• Cheney Still Paid by Haliburton
• Cheney Oil Firm Widens Iraq Role
• New Furor Over Halliburton
• Halliburton Linked to Deals With 'Axis of Evil'
• Secret Halliburton Deal Endangers U.S. Credibility - The 2000 election already did that!
• Letter: Cheney's Connections To Halliburton ŒInappropriate'
• Halliburton Says Gave Bribes in Nigeria
• Halliburton No-Bid Contract Up to $76.7M
• Full disclosure urged on Halliburton deal
• Cheney’s Old Company Continues To Break Law’s While Profiting From Terror
• Dancing With the Devil - 'Let's see. Who's less patriotic, the Dixie Chicks or Dick Cheney's long-term meal ticket, the Halliburton Company?'
• The Pentagon and Halliburton
• Army Gives Halliburton Over $425M in Work
• Halliburton deals on Iraq bigger than reported - Halliburton Co. has received more US government contracts in Iraq than earlier reported, including an "obscure but lucrative" deal with 425 million dollars, a US lawmaker says.
• More than 30 U.S. corporations are doing business in Iran despite trade sanctions imposed in 1980 - Vice President Cheney's old firm Halliburton (HAL: Research, Estimates) has an office in the Iranian capital, Tehran. A company spokeswoman told CNN that the subsidiary, Halliburton products and services, helps build drilling rigs in Iran's southern oil field.
• War Profiteering: Dick Cheney and Halliburton - This recent revelation raises questions about the motives of the Bush Administration in Iraq, especially given Vice President Dick Cheney’s past leadership of Halliburton.
• Halliburton Unit Gets Over $800 Million
• The World Acording to Halliburton - Financial and industrial breakdown.
• Halliburton Iraq contract queried - Halliburton could have years of work in Iraq Halliburton, the oil services and construction group once led by US vice president Dick Cheney, is in the spotlight once again over its role in the reconstruction of Iraq
• Rivals Say Halliburton Dominates Iraq Oil Work - Halliburton's role in the rebuilding has been under political scrutiny because the company was formerly headed by Vice President Dick Cheney.
• Halliburton unit preferred for MoD bid - An arm of Halliburton, the controversial group led until 2000 by American vice-president Dick Cheney, yesterday emerged as the preferred bidder for a contract worth £350m over seven years to coordinate logistics support for British troops on overseas missions.
• New Iraq Contracts Offer Just `Scraps' - Some of California's biggest engineering companies are submitting bids today to restart the Iraqi oil industry, but the Army Corps of Engineers warned that it might not award a new contract, instead relying on Halliburton Co. to complete the work it already has started.
• Halliburton Has a Friend in Dick Cheney: - No Bid Contracts in Iraq and Getting Off the Hook on Asbestos
• NO-BID CONTRACTS - (Scroll down on page) - The contractor is Kellogg, Brown & Root, a subsidiary of Vice President Dick Cheney's former company, Texas-based Halliburton. The watchdog group Taxpayers for Common Sense says the subsidiary received $1.3 billion in government business last year -- much of it, like this, without having to enter a bid.
• Bechtel gets bigger Iraq deal - $350M boost is sign that U.S. has underestimated Iraq costs; Halliburton also getting more. - The U.S. General Accounting Office has told aides to Rep. Henry Waxman, a California Democrat, that Halliburton subsidiary Brown and Root is likely to earn "several hundred million more dollars" from the no-bid Corps of Engineers contract to rehabilitate oil fields, The Post said.
• Iraq: Halliburton Reaping Huge Profits - One in Three US Military Dollars Spent Goes to Contractors - Halliburton, the company formerly headed by Vice President Cheney, has won contracts worth more than $1.7 billion under Operation Iraqi Freedom and stands to make hundreds of millions more dollars under a no-bid contract awarded by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, according to newly available documents.
• Halliburton Makes a Killing on Iraq War - Cheney's Former Company Profits from Supporting Troops - While recent news coverage has speculated on the post-war reconstruction gravy train that corporations like Halliburton stand to gain from, this latest information indicates that Halliburton is already profiting from war time contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
• Cheney is still paid by Pentagon contractor - Halliburton, the Texas company which has been awarded the Pentagon's contract to put out potential oil-field fires in Iraq and which is bidding for postwar construction contracts, is still making annual payments to its former chief executive, the vice-president Dick Cheney. - The payments, which appear on Mr Cheney's 2001 financial disclosure statement, are in the form of "deferred compensation" of up to $1m (£600,000) a year.
• All In The Family - Even before the first shots were fired in Iraq, the Pentagon had secretly awarded Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown & Root a two-year, no-bid contract to put out oil well fires and to handle other unspecified duties involving war damage to the country’s petroleum industry. It is worth up to $7 billion. - But does the fact that Cheney used to run Halliburton have any effect at all on the company getting government contracts?
• The Iraq Reconstruction Bonanzanits. - The real problem is that without strong legislative safeguards and oversight, billions of taxpayer dollars are sure to be wasted through insufficiently competitive contracts to politically connected firms like Halliburton and Bechtel.
• Spending on Iraq sets off gold rush - Lawmakers fear U.S. is losing control of funds -  The Iraqi gold rush has raised concerns on Capitol Hill that the administration may be losing control of the taxpayers’ money. -  “What we’re seeing is waste and gold-plating that’s enriching Halliburton and Bechtel while costing taxpayers billions of dollars and actually holding back the pace of reconstruction in Iraq,” said Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-Calif.), a leading critic of the administration’s handling of Iraq.
• French sleaze inquiry targets US oil subsidiary - The public prosecutor's office in Paris said yesterday it was opening a formal judicial inquiry into alleged corruption by a French engineering firm and the American oil services giant Halliburton, which was headed until two years ago by Dick Cheney, the vice-president of the United States. - The financial crimes squad in Paris believes a French oil and gas engineering firm, Technip, and particularly the Halliburton subsidiary KBR were jointly involved during the 1990s in the payment of up to $200-million of under-the-counter "commissions" in relation to a huge gas contract in Nigeria.
• Cheney, Halliburton ties facing more questions - Between 1995 and 2000, while Democrat Bill Clinton ran the country and Republican Dick Cheney ran Halliburton, there was no talk of favoritism or political ties as the Houston-based company billed the government $2.2 billion for its work in Kosovo. - And a September 2000 report by the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress, found that Brown & Root, the subsidiary, had overbilled the government millions of dollars for excessive electric-ity, overstaffing and unnecessary furniture in Kosovo.
• Price of Gasoline for Iraq Questioned - Two senior House Democrats charged yesterday that the Bush administration was paying Halliburton Inc. "extraordinarily high prices" to import gasoline into Iraq. - Citing Army Corps numbers, they calculated that the per-gallon cost of the gas would be $1.62 to $1.70 after Halliburton's fee. The gasoline is being sold to Iraqis for 4 to 15 cents per gallon, they said, citing news reports.
• Bechtel Gets G.O.P. Support for a Potential Tax Break - The tax break, which will be taken up on Tuesday by the House Ways and Means Committee, was originally intended to help shore up factory jobs in the United States by reducing the corporate tax rate for domestic manufacturers to 32 percent from 35 percent. - But the bill now includes a provision sought by Bechtel, an engineering conglomerate that is also one of the biggest recipients of government contracts for Iraqi reconstruction, that would reduce taxes on "architectural and engineering services." - The new provision would also benefit the Halliburton Company, whose previous chief executive was Vice President Dick Cheney and which now has a Pentagon contract to repair the Iraqi oil infrastructure. The Fluor Corporation, which recently won a $102 million contract to work on Iraq's electrical system, would receive a tax reduction as well.
• Halliburton Contract Extended in Iraq - Vice President Dick Cheney's former company will retain a no-bid contract in Iraq longer than expected, the Bush administration said Wednesday, blaming sabotage of oil facilities for delays in replacement contracts. - Halliburton's contract, worth $1.59 billion so far, will be extended until December or January while the government receives and evaluates revised bids for replacement work that could total $2 billion. - TVNL Comment: Un-Fu%$ing believable!
• Pentagon Delays Award of Iraq Oil Contracts Again - The U.S. military said on Tuesday it had again extended a deadline for awarding two new contracts to repair Iraq's oil fields, giving Vice President Dick Cheney's old firm Halliburton more time under its no-competition deal.
• Iraq delays hand Cheney firm $1bn - - Halliburton, the engineering group formerly run by US vice-president Dick Cheney, has been given $1 billion worth of reconstruction work in Iraq by the - US government without having to compete for it, thanks to repeated delays in opening up a key contract to competition.
• US finds Halliburton overcharged - An oil services firm substantially overcharged US forces for petrol in Iraq, a Pentagon audit has found - But an anonymous Pentagon official says that KBR charged inflated prices for fuel and other items - and that the problems go beyond pricing, AP reports. - TVNL Comment; Overcharging the government during war time. Now that’s patriotic! That’s Dick Cheney’s former company! Remember what  TVNL said aboutDick Cheney!
• Pentagon launches Halliburton inquiry - The Pentagon has begun an extensive inquiry into Halliburton's activities in Iraq after evidence emerged that the oil services company, which was formerly run by the US vice president, Dick Cheney, overcharged the US government by as much as $120m
• Halliburton Gets More Business in Iraq - The U.S. military said on Monday Vice President Dick Cheney's former company Halliburton was allocated $222 million more last week for work in Iraq, at the same time as a Pentagon audit found the firm may have overbilled for some services there. - Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg Brown and Root has now clocked up $2.26 billion under its March no-bid contract with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to rebuild Iraq's oil sector.
• Gun Firms On Verge Of Winning New Shield
• Bush Fund-Raising
• Bush Ally Set to Profit from the War on Terror
• BushCo Reams Nation Good -No WMDs after all, no excuse for war, too late for anyone to care anymore. Ha-ha, suckers
• Villagers vs Oil Giant: Ashcroft to the Rescue
• How the Bush gang loots Iraq
• Oil boss paid $1m a year by contract bidder
• Defense Execs Get Top Pentagon Posts
• War profiteers Shell, Bechtel, Fluor take record of terror from Africa to Iraq - As Bush creates a corporate protectorate in Iraq, many companies who stand to benefit from reconstruction and oil exploration there are familiar to Africans. Shell, Bechtel and Fluor are all associated with massacres and crimes against humanity in Africa.
• US contracts come under scrutiny -  Reconstruction offers rich pickings, but must you be a Bush supporter to benefit?
• 
  

When we went to Italy the kids took books to read...Our eldest took Bernard Goldberg " The 100 people Who Are Screwing up America"

Nancy Pelosi was one pf them.

This does not shock me!

 

Paris Hilton believe it or not beat Nancy!

-- Edited by pima on Wednesday 28th of September 2011 09:37:51 PM