Political & Elections

I like this cartoon too.

http://www.cartoonbank.com.14feb-youth.com/2011/your-mother-and-i-are-separating-because-i-want-whats-best-for-the-country-and-your-mother-does/invt/137279/

Not everything, deserving or not, gets a reply - sometimes you lose interest, other times it just puts you to sleep.

Today's Pearls:

http://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine?ref=comics

And sometimes you don't respond because others can state your positoin more eloquently.

Then there are times that's it's just better to read the comments, shake your head, and log out.

Here's a plan: gang up on people who don't agree with you because there are so many people contributing to this message board !  rofl

I admin this board and I often don't have time to even come back and follow threads or post what I would like.  I can't check in from work and with some of these folks, we have already had these same arguments/discussions many times before on CC.  I think there are some people here who know what I will write about a topic before I have even written it!

I cannot read the board from my phone either.  Consequently, I may not get back online for 10-12 hours.  Or maybe not till the next day.  Like others.  

Sometimes I feel that I have posting fatigue and just am not in the right frame of mind to either post a cogent reply.  Or talking any more on a subject would be literally just spewing something to raise my post count.  I could care less about post count! 

The bottom line - participants here may not ever come back to a thread while it's still relevant.  People have busy lives.  If there were more posters, we would have more lively discussions.  As it is, we have only a handful that post.  And most of them have fairly busy lives.  

stop acting like a victim

Yep. Wherever you go, there you are.

I NEVER said I wouldn't read it. I said I wouldn't respond until I can read it and research it. There is a REASON why I haven't responded but I have responded on this thread where it's mostly just our personal opinion about how we feel about something.

Again, when I have time to review the sites, I will respond. I like to be able to look at the material before I comment on it. Medical marijuana legislation isn't going anywhere in the next week, but my physics homework was due at midnight last night and I had class all day up until now. Those took priority.

ETA: I'm done arguing this with you. It's really dumb. I will respond. This isn't a chat room, it's a message board. People respond at their leisure. Sorry if I cannot respond as quick as you think is appropriate.

Hope to cartera I'm sure no one will ever change your mind, but knowing there are many out there like you, who are not able whatsoever to see past color, is really disturbing to me.

You didn't see this as a personal attack?

I have avoided insulting your intelligence, because, as I think we all know, YOU are a lawyer! I, on the other hand, hold a B.A. degree. In addition, by virtue of the fact that you are a Democrat you are of high intelligence! lol

So passive/aggressive attacks are okay, because the stuff in the quote is an example.

I wasn't questioning your intelligence. I was questioning your opinions. That's what happens on message boards.

I think this is where you and I differ- I don't see her in a subordinate role.

It's unquestionably a subordinate role.  The issue is how she feels about it.  Mrs. Obama is clearly having the time of her life, but I get the impression that there is some friction in the marriage.  As there is in all marriages, even the most excellent.  I'm not saying they are unhappy, just that the reality is likely a lot more complicated than the photo-op.  I've read a lot of quotes over the years that make it clear that it's Mrs. Obama who makes Mr. Obama's dreams a reality.  I just wonder if he realizes that she has done it through hard work and dedication, not because he wished it and the fairies came to implement.

I'm not sure I agree with that completely, Romani.  Knowing men like Mr. Obama, I would bet an entire dozen cupcakes that he doesn't really understand his wife's role in his success because they just don't get those logistical things.  I also wonder how she feels about a subordinate role when, frankly, she is the more competent part of the couple.

I really like Mrs. Obama.  I don't agree with her politics, but I have a great deal of respect for her.  Mr. Obama, whatever his gifts, is clearly not a nuts-and-bolts, tethered to the real world kind of guy.  It's a testament to Michelle that a dreamer like him could have gotten where he did every step of the way.  And raised beautiful kids.

If I had a word of advice for Michelle, it would be to have more press coverage for her speaking. We see her posing at state dinners, shots of her speaking, photos of her vacations, etc., but rarely do we hear her speak. I don't see extended clips of her speaking to/about the military, for example. I think her voice and manner are very appealing.

Press coverage is a funny thing. It's largely dependent upon the will of the press to provide coverage, for instance. And if Michelle Obama were to aggressively seek coverage to highlight the work she does for military families, surely she would be lambasted as a publicity whore, seeking only her own aggrandizement.

But, there are plenty enough videos available (on Youtube, for instance) in which Mrs. Obama addresses issues concerning our Military members and their families in speeches before live audiences. Here's a link to just one such address, during which she appears before members of the movies industry to speak on behalf of such families: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRXp9osI8Bk. I also personally saw an Oprah episode during it's final season (a couple of months ago) during which Michelle Obama and Dr. Jill Biden sat before an entire audience of Military members and their loved ones to discuss the need for increased support and services for our returning troops. But, most First Ladies' platforms aren't constantly in the news. The Press wasn't constantly covering Laura Bush's literacy efforts either. Then of course, the GOP would probably rather drink Drano than acknowlege that an Obama might be doing something positive for our military. They'd much rather look for ways to make it seem like Michelle hates America---ergo, witness the brouhaha responsible for this thread.

However, somehow, the Obamas have not conveyed to the American public that they are a part of it.  They can't seem to relate. I think the fact that they have lost support even among the African-American community speaks to this.  Oddly enough, they seem to be (though I doubt they would agree with this!) the products of privilege, while still carrying chips on their shoulders.

I think many Americans have shown that they have never viewed the Obamas as being "part of it" (whatever "it" is), and have shown themselves unwilling to think of them as America's legitimate First Family. Strictly speaking for myself, I've sensed a lot of resentment directed toward them from the moment they moved in to the White House. And I don't know how much support you believe The President has lost from the African-American community, but I don't believe it can be said to be a lot. Sure, some high profile blacks have been critical at times, but the issues over which they've leveled criticism and those concerning mainstream America are often very different issues.

As far as the "products of Privilege" perception goes, that's actually pretty laughable. Neither of them was a product of privilege. Michelle was raised on the South Side of Chicago in a working class family. Neither of her parents was well educated. Her father was a city water plant employee (who later contracted Multiple Sclerosis) and her mother was a SAHM until the children entered High School, at which point, she began working as a secretary for a Spiegel Catalog store. Michelle and her brother both attended Princeton on heavy financial aid. As far as Barack Obama is concerned, his was a solidly middle class upbringing, financially speaking. His parents and step-father were all very well educated, but privilege is not something with which he had a lot of personal experience. He graduated high school from a prestigious prep school, but relied on scholarships in order to attend. I suppose it can be said that world travel, educated parents, and proximity to high school friends who were financially privileged did lend him a sophistication and world view that transcended his actual financial status, however.

The perception that they both know what's good for us? Like that it would be a good thing if everyone in America had affordable health care? Or that it's best that children not be burdened with adult medical syndromes due to childhood obesity? Yeah, how dare they think either of those things?

-- Edited by Poetsheart on Thursday 22nd of September 2011 02:55:28 AM

Well, apparently, that Youtube video has been removed, perhaps by the person who posted it. But, a some lip readers who routinely work within the deaf-mute community agree that what she actually said was, "amazing how they fold that flag." I've personally been impressed on numerous occassions by the way members our military flag corps fold the flag with efficient, white gloved hands, snapping it with precision, creasing it between their fingers along its length, moving in perfectly timed union. It's awe inspiring every time, and makes me proud to be an American (even though there have been numerous times when, as an African American, I haven't felt that my country reciprocated my feelings of allegiance and respect). Before the video was removed, I tried to see the supposed "look of disgust" that some insist Mrs. Obama expressed as she said the disputed phrase, but I never saw it. Acually, I saw her smile immediately after having said it. The President nodded his head in agreement. Why would someone who chooses to work so closely with our military members and their families express open disdain for the flag of our nation, especially when they also happen to be in the most privileged position of First Lady of The United States of Ameria? It makes no sense. But, if I keeps you warm at night to hold onto the hate, knock yourself out. It is, after all, a free country.

My conscience is entirely clean where First Ladies are concerned. I can honestly say that I've never felt the kind of disdain being expressed by some on this thread for a single one of them. I've always felt, for instance, that Nancy Reagan was unfairly pilloried when she bought new china for the White House. It was mean spirited and petty criticism in my opinion. And I always admired the obvious affection she and the President shared---thought it was fantastic, actually---even though I wasn't a particular fan of Ronald Reagan's. I absolutely adored Laura Bush, and admire her still. Had she chosen the fight against childhood obesity as her one of the planks in her platform, I would have supported it as whole heartedly as I supported her efforts to address childhood illiteracy. I certainly wouldn't have gone after her the way some have so mercilessly attacked Michelle Obama over the obesity issue. I mean, honestly....people like Sarah Palin ought to be ashamed.

Objective people would say that clip is open to interpretation.

Either way.

You don't like Michelle being scrutinized. I wonder if you have the same problem with Sarah Palin being scrutinized?

I asked before for people to offer what they think she is saying and expressing in the clip.

We are all amateur lip readers. What do you think she said?

Michelle Obama does not get special treatment as First Lady because she is an African-American. I think some have trouble understanding that concept.

Read your history and see how Eleanor Roosevelt was reviled in her day! The new Jackie tapes are out now--unedited. They don't necessarily paint the prettiest picture. I don't think Hillary escaped criticism by any means. Why should Michelle be any different?

If Nancy Reagan can be criticized hundreds of times for the way she looked, or as it was typically put, gazed adoringly at her husband, at public events, certainly people should be free to inspect what was going on between the President and FL at a closeup shot at the 9/11 ceremony.

I looked at the tape several times again. She is looking at the flag being folded, and it's kind of clear to me she says the words "folding the flag." Coupled with the look on her face and her head-shake, I personally find it hard to believe she was expressing awe and respect at that moment, as the White House says. That is my prerogative as an American citizen.

Interesting how one can say "Nancy Reagan is not a likeable person particularly," but somehow people do their best to muzzle anyone who might say or even think that about Michelle Obama. Frankly, I doubt Michelle could care less about my or anyone else's opinion of her! She seems to do her own thing.

As for the disgusting words listed by jazzy, maybe I'm missing something, but I find it almost as reprehensible to repeat them as to post them. I'm confused as to the point. I mean, if you want to list sources for this stuff, fine. But we all know these are words used in comments by anonymous people. What should we do to make you feel better? Round them up and throw them in a reeducation camp? You're not trying to paint all  critics of the Obamas as racists, are you? I guess if you could identify them you could report them to AttackWatch. Go to twitter #attachwatch and read the hilarious comments.

My favorite:

New Poll:  Favor Obama's policies - 17% ; Racist - 83%

We have come to a place in this society where everything is scrutinized.  Not only is the news available 24 hours a day on cable, but you can also get commentary about commentary in print, tv and cable formats.

It's the height of ridiculousness.

Everything in politics is about political gain, when it comes to elections.

You can either watch all the pundits suggest their POV endlessly and get worked up into a frenzy or choose to ignore it.  I have chosen, for the most part, to disengage from it. Frankly, I am much happier.

But even in my days of watching commentary and reading blogs and numerous newspapers of all persuasions, and posting to discussion boards, I have never seen anything close to a reference of ape, wookie or chimp for any first lady.  I have, however, seen this kind of nastiness leveled at our former President.  I have heard reference to it for our current President, although I have never witnessed or heard it firsthand.  

There are truly enough haters out there.  All it takes is one.  And yet, I try not to think that the one idiot with broadband and a keyboard is representative of all.  There are different scale of idiots when it comes to the internet. 

If you try very hard, you will find things will disgust you around the clock.  I try to focus on more fullfilling things these days.  

Like reading the article about Dakota Meyer who disobeyed his commanding officers orders to hold back and stay out of harms way, and instead went five times into a firefight to provide cover for his fellow Marines.  He saved 30+ Americans and Afghanis, and even though he lost five of his buddies, 30 survived.  It was delightful to see our President give him that medal.  He deserved it.  

There are disgusting bloggers.  There are also disgusting talk radio people.  We know this. 

There are people who always try to incite riotous behavior, and people who are badly behaved in general.  Why give them any kind of kudos by even repeating their vile garbage?  

Ah, how soon we forget....

"That pitiless gaze was focused on Nancy Reagan last week by Kitty Kelley, America's premier slash biographer. The resulting furor caused even some die- hard Nancy haters to feel a sympathetic twinge or two for the former First Lady. Nancy Reagan: The Unauthorized Biography (Simon & Schuster) went on sale across the nation just as newspapers and TV newscasts began to revel in the book's most sensational allegations. Many bookstores sold out their copies within hours. Aggrieved parties cried foul, Johnny Carson made jokes and guardians of journalistic integrity shook their heads. The New York Times, which trumpeted the book's revelations in a long, uncritical front-page piece on Sunday, sobered up three days later with a condemning editorial. "Lightning rods have had it better than Nancy Reagan," it said. ". . . But truly, nobody deserves this."

cartera & jazzy:

How about this?

How about we consider a swap? Republicans trade all their racists for all those Democrats who see racism in almost every aspect of day-to-day and political life.

Then, they all have to - every single one of them - vote in November and vote strictly along the lines of their new party affliation.

  Manufactured hate fests like this one aren't about attacking policies.  They're about character assassination and they work because people are gullible and can't wait to jump on the bandwagon even if what they're spewing "ain't so."

 Not everyone who dislikes the Obamas is a racist, but that doesn't mean charge of  racism behind  this sort of twisted character assassination is baseless.  Just read through the comments on some of these websites that are promoting this BS.  If you can stand to. 

And let me know if there's another way to interpret  "******s" or "monkeys" or "chimps," or the aforementioned apes and wookie, as labels for this particular FL and POTUS.