I remember back in the 60's when divorce for a man was career suicide in many companies, outside of "show business".
Now if you don't have a hot young "trophy wife" or girlfriend, you are considered inferior or second rate.
Just another negative aspect of the "me first" society.
I hope Ayn Rand is writhing in the deepest depths of a Stygian hell, being buggered daily by Satan himself.
Yes, there was a time when getting divorced was career suicide...especially if it was because you were leaving your wife for another woman. Usually, the bigwigs' wives would put pressure on their Hs to get rid of the guy...largely out of concern that such behavior would become accepted or commonplace. And, they certainly didn't want this guy and his new honey in their social circle...again, so that their H's wouldn't become jealous and then become tempted to find himself a younger model.
After my mom had her first stroke, the part of her brain that was destroyed was also the part that made her difficult at times. She's been a joy ever since - and she has no problem now regretting some things she used to do. It's like the stubborn area got destroyed as well. :) Weird, right?
Many years ago, when my MIL still knew who I was and before the Alzheimers had robbed her of her memories, I asked her how she could bear to see her husband flaunting the long term affair with their neighbor. She basically told me I was young and naiive and she had been married longer than I had been alive, and that it was only between her and her husband.
To many of us, it would seem unthinkable to stay with such a guy or to tolerate such nonsense. But, from what I've seen and have learned as I've grown into "middle age" is that sometimes women stay in such marriages because the last thing they want is for their financial stability to be turned upside down by divorce. Divorced women are often left with the shorter end of the financial stick, and the last thing they want is for their H's to enjoy the fruits that they've saved/made together with some other woman if he were free to do so.
I have a close friend who is in such a marriage. Her H isn't a cheater, but he's rude/impatient/ungrateful/demanding. Probably not every day, but when he's in a bad mood or something. Their financial strength is largely with him - thru his job, thru his 401k, thru his future retirement. They don't seem to have a lot in regular savings or in home equity. Her health insurance is also with him.
If they were to divorce, she says that her style of living would be near pauper status and she's too old to really earn the money that she's used to having. They live in a state where spousal support is for like 12-24 months and isn't much. She says that she'd be lucky to earn $10 per hour, wouldn't have health insurance, and over half her salary would have to go to rent, so how would she pay for car/insurance/gas/food/etc.
They are both about 50. I think he's a year older than she is. They are about 15 years from retirement age, so she'd have many very lean years until she could get her hands on half of the retirement & 401k money, and even then the amount, once split, won't easily cover 2 households.
She has said that there is no way she's going to give him his freedom to date other women and live highly on his salary while she'd be starving in some dumpy apartment barely making ends meet. And, she says that's the first thing he'd do....flaunt (much) younger women in her face at family gatherings and such. Her H is nice-looking and makes good money, so there are many young women who would like to be wined and dined by such a guy. And, it's doubtful, he'd treat them like her treats her - at least for awhile.
While it seems that she's more miserable now, she really isn't. She often lets what he says go in one ear and out the other. She just "considers the source" and acts like she's made of teflon. Her children and family/friends all know that she's the nicer and better person and that's enough for her.
Edited to add...
I just remembered something else she said (of course, I'm paraphrasing): She said that once the kids are grown, some men (like her husband) would like to leave their wives and date some cute, young gals. That way they have the "best of both worlds"...grown kids and future grandkids (who werr largely raised by their dutiful wives). The kids are raised, the wife has done a good job with them, but she's no longer needed for that, so she's expendible. And, once divorced, these men have the freedom to date and have fun sex with various women, and not just sex with the wife. She said that by staying married to him she was preventing this nonsense (and her financial downfall). I think the reason he doesn't leave her is because of the fall-out from their kids. They'd likely disown their dad. I guess he thinks that eventually she'll leave him, but she won't - she's not about to give him his freedom. Another thing, his health isn't so hot, so she's rather certain that she'll outlive him and she not about to let his share of their money go to anyone but her.
-- Edited by ItalianMomma on Thursday 14th of April 2011 08:38:59 PM
Now that was a complicated marriage. That one, I would never understand! Probably either my husband or the neighbor would not have been still walking the earth, if I was her. No wonder she didn't want to talk about it.
Many years ago, when my MIL still knew who I was and before the Alzheimers had robbed her of her memories, I asked her how she could bear to see her husband flaunting the long term affair with their neighbor. She basically told me I was young and naiive and she had been married longer than I had been alive, and that it was only between her and her husband.
I was shocked and a little betrayed that I would come to her defense and she turned on me. But I realized that she was right. It was her marriage. She had come to terms with it and it was how it had been for a long time.
Nobody really understands anyone else's marriage. We can sometimes barely understand our own.
-- Edited by SamuraiLandshark on Wednesday 13th of April 2011 10:00:20 PM
Actually, in my family, it is quite the opposite. My mother is almost always the one doing the bullying. My dad is very passive agressive. And perhaps bullying was the wrong word I chose for it. I've realized that it's best to not even bring these things up, it is never worth it. Defer, deflect and change the subject. They are kind and loving people, just occasionally crazy. And everything is fine now, I just have realized they can't bear to talk about any past misdeeds.
Everything in my life is so calm. My husband and kids are so loving and peaceful, when there is any problem we deal with it instantly. No grudges. But my parents have always had so many mental issues, constantly fighting, playing games, ignoring one another, enraged, passive agressive.
My first thought was why is your mom upset that you told your dad that he is a bully sometimes, because surely she has been the victim of those tactics many times. But, then I realized that she is just going along with her H to avoid any wrath or more bullying in her direction. If your mom had said, "Yes, she is right, you are a bully sometimes," not only would she get bullied by him, but he would also claim that she turned you against him and put those thoughts into your head.
I never understood why my MIL never spoke up when her H would be a total ass to her kids (especially the sons). I realize now that she must have learned early on to stay below the radar to avoid his wrath.
My FIL died about 5 years ago. It's a good thing he died first, because now my MIL has a break (you wouldn't believe some of the things she said at his funeral), but the truth is if she had died first, none of the kids would have given their dad much of their time after that. They only put up with their dad so as to see their mom.
-- Edited by ItalianMomma on Wednesday 13th of April 2011 07:39:38 PM
Romani-- I don't know that I haven't always "understood" why my parents are the way they are. They just never wanted to grow up. Still don't. But, I do realize WHY they are how they are, and so, I just don't have expectations that they will be someone else today, or that anything I can do is going to change them. Not everything about them is "all bad," just like anyone. I find if I meet them where they are I'm able to enjoy them for who they are. It's only when I start wishing they were different that I run into problems. Of course, this is the case in every relationship, no?
We can't say, "Accept me as I am, BUT YOU HAVE TO CHANGE!" though we all probably want to.
I like my parent's relationship with my daughters and with my nephews, and I just try to be a part of the things where the kids are involved. I don't try to be a part of the things where there are no kids involved, because......it just gets tense.
Most of us find our compromises.
Busdriver....I am unambiguously sure you are a great mom. I know I am. It's one of the few things in my life I think I've done really well at.
Hope you enjoy your sister's visit and don't bet the house!
Does make you wonder, we think we're doing a right fine job with our kids, but crazies don't usually know they're crazy. I wonder what awful stories they're going to tell about us when they have their own families.
Parents can be ridiculous. So can in-laws and siblings, and yes, even kids.
I ended up with a fairly normal dad and mom. Both came from twisted families and they worked hard to try to create a normal family for their kids. Even when my mom died, we were able to stay pretty normal. My husband's family was much more messed up. I am not sure how he made it through his childhood and turned into the awesome man he is - without therapy or whining.
All I can say is, sorry. Sometimes having those family situations makes you a stronger parent to your own kids. Other families become just as f'ed up and dysfunctional as they come!
Yeah, that karma thing. There really is something to it. Every time I start getting a little too ****y, I trip and fall on my face. Or realize that my shirt has been unbuttoned for the last few hours and nobody managed to tell me.
Oh well, poetgrls advice of ducking and running for cover has worked well this time. I'm sure some new outrage will come along before we know it!
Yipes, I hope alot of that video was just an act and not real. Funny, but depressing!
"It's really interesting to hear parents complain about their own parents. As young people, we're taught that we'll "understand" our parents and their neurotic ways one day. I'm sort of glad that's not the truth lol."
At some point as you age, you realize that your parents have their own problems and baggage. That just because someone is 70 or 80 and has wrinkles, doesn't mean that they aren't the same person they were at 23. They just don't look as good. You may be able to understand their neurotic ways (mine are very complex so I doubt I'll ever understand), but if you have managed not to get yourself screwed up also in the process, hopefully you won't emulate those neurotic ways and put your children through the same crap. Me and my sister often look at our parents as an example of how NOT to treat your spouse or children.
It's really interesting to hear parents complain about their own parents. As young people, we're taught that we'll "understand" our parents and their neurotic ways one day. I'm sort of glad that's not the truth lol.
Have you guys ever heard of the comedian Christopher Titus? Whenever I get upset about my very neurotic family, I go and watch his stand up and it makes me feel better about my life. You may want to check out his show "Norman Rockwell is Bleeding." It's all available on Youtube.
Yeah, that's for sure. Life is way too short. I will have a great visit with her, I know. Gambling, spas and restaurants...the wicked side of life. Just a pity they will miss out on seeing their daughter.
On the bright side, I've realized that I have probably managed to deflect the usual yelling and harassment my father gets from my mom. Now they can band together and be mad at me for awhile! I'm sure he is as happy as can be.
Ha! you think I'm not screwed up. They would disagree.
I always think it must be way more difficult to BE them than to be able to walk away from them. Have a nice visit with your sister. Forget about them. Life's too short for the rigarmarole. As you know.
-- Edited by poetgrl on Tuesday 29th of March 2011 09:43:43 PM
Ha, ha, poetgrl, how did you turn out so unscrewed up? I wonder if we have the same parents, are we related? I just am not interested in drama. Life can be good, easy. Why mess around with the people who love you the most? Me and my sister are the only family they have. I live near them, but my sister has avoided visiting here for about 3 years. Purely because she can't bear the thought of what unkind thing they might say when they see her (they generally lay low on me because I don't put up with it, but they ALWAYS say something awful to her). And I resent that they are keeping my dear sister from visiting me, so I promised her that we just wouldn't even tell them she was visiting!
Actually, my current favorite is a tasty red blend wine (14 Hands--yum)...but I think maybe you're right about the, "Duck and cover and lay low and let them go. By the next time you see them, they'll be onto some other outrage, or the time after that." I'm afraid now they will be on this one for a LONG time, but I'll try to backpedal if I can. I thought if I said something they would realize how abusive they'd been to my sister, and that perhaps when she came to visit next month they could behave for a change. And she would come back twice a year like she used to. My God, if I knew my child was avoiding visiting me for years because of mean things I'd said, I would never say anything rude again.
Coming from a truly insane family, having been born in an artist commune, I can affirm that a "shoot the messenger" policy exists in my family.
I learned long ago to keep my mouth shut, smile and nod, and be happy my own family isn't like this. I was once given a t-shirt by a close friend which reads: "Friends are God's Way of Apologizing for Family."
If it wasn't worn to shredds, I'd send it along to you, now.
Instead, as I understand your current favorite is tiramisu, might I suggest a desert?
Really am sorry. Been there. Duck and cover and lay low and let them go. By the next time you see them, they'll be onto some other outrage, or the time after that.
-- Edited by poetgrl on Tuesday 29th of March 2011 08:51:00 PM
I always think I can fix my parents. That I can help their insanity in some way. That some sort of advice I can give them will be useful. I always listen to my children, I hang on every word, and respect every single thing that they say. They are the smartest people that I know.
But my parents are just...insane. How did me and my sister turn out fairly normal....I don't know. I thought I could tell my father a truth, that he is occasionally belittling and bullying, and he needs to know this. God knows, I would want to know that. If one of my sons said this to me, I would be horrified and apologize right away. Yet he gave me every excuse in the world (without taking any responsibility) and my mother is "highly offended" and now it's all a big, ugly deal. They're probably raging about it right now.
Everything in my life is so calm. My husband and kids are so loving and peaceful, when there is any problem we deal with it instantly. No grudges. But my parents have always had so many mental issues, constantly fighting, playing games, ignoring one another, enraged, passive agressive. And I thought one iota of truth would be useful. How did I let myself get sucked into this crap anyways? So do I continue to tell them the truth....or do I pretend that I'm just mistaken, I didn't mean to say that, etc, etc. But I'm not a very good liar.
