Political & Elections

busdriver11 · Guru

RE: The Princess Boy

DonnaL · Senior Member

I'm glad this kid's parents support his self-expression. I'm not sure it's true that he'll necessarily get "pounded" if he continues to want to dress like a girl all the time when he's older. It depends on where they live and the atmosphere (including the tolerance for bullying) at his school. Plus, if he's still in the same school system, most of his classmates will only have known him to be this way.

Is it likely that he's gay or trans? Yes, absolutely. I certainly knew who I really was, long before I was 5. (Obviously, self-expression to this extent was completely impossible back then. Although I was allowed to do it more than you might think, including going outside, until I was 8. Nobody ever gave me a hard time. I never did it in school, of course, beyond "dress up" type play in nursery school, in which I was no different from lots of other kids.)

I can assure you that trying to get him to suppress who he is, now or later -- especially now that he's been permitted to express himself this way -- won't work, and will do nothing positive for him. It will only instill shame. Whether he's trans or not.

Differentiation from his mother? Thank you, Dr. Freud. Obviously children have to differentiate from (both) their parents, but do you seriously believe that that theory has anything to do with why some people are gay or trans? It's not 1950 anymore.

And please do yourself a favor and remove the words "lifestyle choice" from your vocabulary when it comes to people who are, or may be, LGBT. It only reflects badly on you.

My quarrel is with his parents (particularly his mom). I think they're exploiting him by publicizing his situation and even writing a book about him. Long before he's old enough to give true, informed, consent. 10 or 20 years from now, however he ends up living his life, he may very much regret that this happened. *Especially* if he's trans, and transitions young, and doesn't want her history to be be generally known. Let alone in a book and all over the Internet, in a way that will never disappear. I've seen similar things happen to too many people, both young and not so young. (Fortunately, the one newspaper article that was written about me, and has both "before" and "after" photos of me -- but, thankfully, not my actual former name -- is no longer online; that paper doesn't have an archive. If I had to do it over again, I would never have agreed to be part of that story.)

-- Edited by DonnaL on Tuesday 4th of January 2011 10:04:05 PM

-- Edited by DonnaL on Tuesday 4th of January 2011 10:14:54 PM

-- Edited by DonnaL on Tuesday 4th of January 2011 10:17:03 PM

-- Edited by DonnaL on Tuesday 4th of January 2011 10:18:32 PM

-- Edited by DonnaL on Tuesday 4th of January 2011 10:34:29 PM

-- Edited by DonnaL on Tuesday 4th of January 2011 10:34:56 PM

DonnaL · Senior Member

BigG wrote:

Google autogynephilia for numerous scholarly people calling one another names and impugning each others motivations in "oh so" scholarly manners.

Don't. Please. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the subject of this thread, and nobody needs to read that kind of nonsense. (It's a term generally used as an insult to impugn the "legitimacy" of certain trans women.)

-- Edited by DonnaL on Tuesday 4th of January 2011 09:43:08 PM

BigG · Guru

The developmental process of differentiation from the mother, both as an individual and as a member of the "opposite" sex, is a much bigger step for a boy than for a girl.

The Mom is NOT doing her kid any favors unless of course he actually is transgendered.

Somewhere between punishment and unalloyed validation of behavior that will cause problems, there should be a balance that encourages sexual differentiation but allows for the possibility of varient sexuality.

Google autogynephilia for numerous scholarly people calling one another names and impugning each others motivations in "oh so" scholarly manners.

How to accomodate individuals as individuals while facilitating their integration into the larger society is a challenge for parents, political leaders and role models in general.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

But they will.

And that little boy will get pounded. It's not fair or right, and I love working with the little kids because they are so forgiving. But wait till 2nd grade. Or 3rd.

Things change pretty quickly.

I understand what you are saying, though.

romanigypsyeyes · Guru

^ Yes, but 100 years ago, it would not have been socially acceptable for a woman to wear pants.

My point was just that the parents are supportive. Yes, kids may be cruel. I work in the ELL classroom for first graders and boys wear pink and jewelry all the time. Their cultures don't necessarily associate pink with feminine. One adorable boy from Nepal wears pink shoes and gold hoop earrings. I thought he was a girl with short hair at first. I just wish all kids could be as accepting as my immigrant kids are. They don't care, yet...

I can have hope, can't I?

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

I don't have a dog in this fight, but to me there is a huge difference between a girl putting on a pair of pants and a boy putting on a princess dress. One implies a clothing choice and the other a lifestyle choice. Even little kids know - intuitively, right or wrong, what is socially "acceptable".

School can be a cruel, cruel place. The teasing can begin early and not relent. I know a young man who was in middle school and went through his share of teasing that made him want to leave school.

Having raised a couple of boys with cabbage patch dolls and stuffed animals and cooking sets and a girl with all manner of Tonka trucks, trains and legos, it's much more socially acceptable for the girls to play at dress up. They can get away with it for longer.

If a boy feels more assured in a princess dress, I would support him and give him as much support as I could.

It's a far cry from welcoming this behavior....because I know what kind of pain he would endure from everyone else. It would be very difficult for him to cope, maybe not at age 5. But it will come down on him like a pile of bricks, I am sad to say.

I honestly wouldn't want my child to deal with this kind of torment.

I doubt any parent would.

romanigypsyeyes · Guru

No- but this isn't life-altering. Dropping out of school is drastic. Getting a tattoo is drastic. Living like a hermit is drastic. How exactly is wearing a dress setting the course of his life?

Would you have said the same thing 100 years ago if your daughter decided she wanted to wear pants instead of a skirt? That she may have "set the course" of her life? I doubt it.

BigG · Guru

I have reservations about allowing a five year old to make choices that may set the course of his life.

Should the kid be allowed to drop out of school and live as a mountain hermit if that is his choice? At the age of five...

romanigypsyeyes · Guru

http://www.parentdish.com/2011/01/03/princess-boy/?ncid=webmail

Interesting story. A 5 year old boy likes to dress up like a princess, the same way many little girls do. The parents are accepting and the mom even wrote a book about it.

It is truly heartwarming to see parents accepting of their son's choices. Many parents, even today, would freak out about their son wanting to dress like a little girl (although it's perfectly normal for a girl to dress like a boy- go figure). Who knows? The son may grow out of it or he may not. The important thing is that he has the support of his family.

Bravo, parents! Bravo!

My own parents let me dress up like a boy when I was younger. I played on all-male sports teams and even wore my god-brother's suit for a year or so until I grew out of it. I still like to dress like a boy more than I do like a girl (stereotype dressing) but its seen as perfectly normal. I am glad that my parents didn't freak out and make me wear dresses or something, but I can guarantee they wouldn't have been as accepting if I had been born a boy and wanted to wear dresses. I hope times are changing.

-- Edited by romanigypsyeyes on Monday 3rd of January 2011 11:40:39 AM