Political & Elections

pima · Guru

Republican Symbolic Gesture re High Speed Rail

longprime · Guru

So is 'slugging' socialism or capitalism? evileye

PDX has above ground light rail.

In the near future I plan to see how cheaply I can go from the Salem to Portland (50miles). Amtrak and Greyhound is $13 (60minutes). I think I can do it for $5 using public transportation and 2 hours.

-- Edited by longprime on Tuesday 22nd of February 2011 09:38:45 AM

pima · Guru

I live in NO VA where we have the metro. The system is great, but every yr, just like Amtrack they lose money hand over fist.

People also forget that proposals rarely:
1. Ever come in on budget
2. Ever come in on time.

The Metro has planned for almost a decade to go out to Tysons, than Dulles, than Haymarket/Gainesville.

For 5 yrs Tysons fought them in courts over the topic of underground or over ground. They wanted under, Metro to save costs wanted it above. Yrs in the court system and it was announced that it would be over. How much do you think those lawsuits costs.

Now the Metro is having the same fight with Dulles, not over or under, but where the stop should be. I am sure it will be another 5 yrs of lawsuits.

Just because you may think it is a great idea, but the question is are you in the town that will be directly impacted? It is so easy to say do it when it isn't your backyard (or property values) taking the hit.

Again, you may believe this will reduce our dependency on oil, but look at DC. They have one of the best mass transit systems in the US, yet at 5:30 a.m. 95 and 66 are bumper to bumper parking lots.

Want to see less dependency on oil, with a low cost investment. Be like MD and VA. Create HOV lanes. Come to VA, Pentagon, exit 160, 158, 152, 139 and you will see how well the HOV system works. There are lots that exist just for commuters and they are hugs...ranging from 500 to 5000 spots. The person parks their car, gets in a line. Guy pulls up and 2 slugs get in their car. It is door to door service. (HOV is 3 to a car). They not only go to the Pentagon, but different spots in DC, where the slug than just hops on the metro to get to their office.

The driver does it because they want to go 65 mph on the HOV lane instead of 10 mph in the traditional lanes.

They have the system so down pat, that the same 2 lanes going north bound in the morning, shut down from 11-12 and then change to southbound for the return flow.

Again, this system costs nothing compared to rail expenditures, except for the road maintenance, and at the same time do to the benefit of carpooling (time) it saves on pollution and oil. It is so popular here they even have a book called the Slug's guide to slugging. In the 3 yrs here, Bullet may have driven to work 5 times, and only because his work schedule dictated it.

longprime · Guru

Actually, the N-S, Western rails are a disgrace. Heavy trucks and studded tires are tearing up I-5 from Redding to Everett. Thankgoodness for 22cent gas tax and mandatory subsidized gasohol.

HS rail N-S, is a Warren Buffet way to get double track for his railroad, at government expense.

Tatin · In exile

Until the price of rail tickets, high speed or not, come way down, the economics of it don't make sense.

My D took the train from San Diego to Union Station in LA. The ticket was $25 each way. That's fine for a single rider. But...if four of us would go to San Diego by train for a vacation trip the cost round trip would be $200. Much more than a tank of gas. And then we'd have to rent a car when we're in San Diego to see the sights, and time our trip to meet the train schedule.

The time for the trip was a little over 2 hours, about the same as a car trip, if you time it right to avoid traffic.

busdriver11 · Guru

Ah, see woodwork, I knew a guy would have that beer bottle opened in 5 seconds flat. If I have another stressful day, I'll try your method tonight. Because 2 is generally better than 1.

Cardinal Fang · Senior Member

Tons of people take Amtrak instead of flying for NY-Washington and Boston-Washington. If Amtrak were faster SF-LA lots of people would take it.

pmrlcomm · Senior Member

Cardinal Fang wrote:
If it really was 400 MILLION dollars, it would have been an incredible bargain. Probably it would have been more..

It was going to use existing commercial rail lines and travel at 39 mph. Oh and the ticket prices were going to have to be subsidized because it was going to be too expensive to compete with driving... Hardly a bargain.

Silvermoonlock · Veteran Member

Bah, in order for me to take the train from Detroit to anywhere, I have to take a bus to Toledo.

We decided to take the train to DC. The bus left around midnight, then we had to wait another hour for the train. Same thing on the way back. Lots of people were traeing via Amtrak to points south and east.

We tried the train because the cost was considerably less than flying.

So now that Detroit may be a city that is right sizing itself, since it can no longer depend upon the auto indusrty, the metropolitan area is still large. One cannot discount the entire area.

Woodwork · Senior Member

I'm not sure there is anything particularly ennobling about being good with your hands, though it does have its moments. For most of my life I was a builder. Both my kids worked for me, including my daughter who is now 23 and my son 12. They worked both out on jobs and in the shop with machines. I like that they now have a tactile sense of doing, constructing and shaping things, the way things feel, even the way things have distinct smells when they are being cut (different woods) or burned (welding, soldering).

Fwiw, I always hated plumbing and I really suck at it.

As for 16 year old daughters having their heads on straight...perhaps compared to 16 year old boys but not much else.

Opening a bottle of beer, well, here's the show stopper: you take two bottles hook and hold them akimbo one cap hooked under the other and give them a quick wrist flip. If all goes well, both open simultaneously, if not one will open the other and you need to grab another unopened bottle. No other tools or implements are needed. Could be done on a desert island...that had beer.

And as for all these high voltage government projects like high speed rail and universal health care, I am not of the opinion that, as they say, if you build it they will come. First let's see the great public demand then talk about the value, cost and benefit. At least as long as we remain a democracy.

-- Edited by Woodwork on Tuesday 23rd of November 2010 04:32:14 AM

busdriver11 · Guru

I am in lovely, scenic Memphis. Doing a simulator checkride. Which is not nearly as much fun as it sounds (which is why I really needed that beer)!

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

What part of the country are you residing in tonight, busdriver?

busdriver11 · Guru

Hey, the hotel hangar worked great. It was kind of loud and I probably woke up the people next to me, but it was alot easier than the tweezers, and if I went outside this time of night to my car, I'd probably get robbed.

Thanks! Tastes delicious biggrin

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

opening your beer bottle in a hotel room:

"Hotel hangers (the kind you can't steal), simply place the bottle under the bar, insert the cap into the hanger (where its connected to bar) and pop like a normal bottle opener."

If you are in a parked car and aren't driving. I actually don't recommend this one because the odds of having the police see you and hassling you would be high:

"Car seat belt latches are the right shape for opening bottles. This is not recommended. If an alcoholic beverage is spilled in the car, it could lead to some very interesting questions if you are pulled over."

I guess if the waitress forgot to open your beer in a restaurant, here is your solution:

"A common fork is a quick and easy method. Using one of the fork's teeth as a lever, push the grooves of the crown up and away from the cap, one at a time.

busdriver11 · Guru

No it doesn't sound too sinister. My kids get rid of us at the first possible opportunity, less chance to embarrass them...I can't imagine them asking us to go with them on a datish sort of thing.

Uh oh. Now I'm wondering, he's not a mamma's boy, right? He just needs the ride?

poetgrl · Senior Member

Yes, well, we are clear on that part, anyway.

No, I know. Who could complain about a boy who is up at 715 on Saturday morning and thinks it is a good idea to take her to a jr. high game with his mother?

Doesn't sound particularly sinister.

busdriver11 · Guru

"Hey, hey now what's that supposed to mean?"

You're young, you're far handier than most of the rest of us women. And I'm assuming you drink beer. I am certain that Abyss can take of a non-twist off cap in record time, also.

busdriver11 · Guru

I don't think you should be alarmed, poetgrl, it sounds like your daughter has her head on straight. It's just a concern when it's the first crush. She is old enough to have a crush! And if they're hanging out with his mom, well, can't go wrong with that.

Though before she marries him, she needs to check out my sons first.

romanigypsyeyes · Guru

And no, it's not a twist off. I'll bet romani knows how to do that.

Hey, hey now what's that supposed to mean? Lol. I only know this stuff because my dad was pissed that he didn't get a son, so I was a substitute. Before his accident, I was being groomed to take over his plumbing business.

Anyway... I just avoid that problem. I drink Guinness.

Er... I mean I will when I am legally old enough in this country.

poetgrl · Senior Member

I agree with not spending a ton of money for little use.

I always see high speed rail as a car replacement, not plane. But, I could be on the wrong paradigm.

busdriver11 · Guru

As far as the high speed rail, I think it will be very wasteful on the west coast. Very few people would take it. It is cheap and easy to jump on a flight (until TSA screws it up too much), too time consuming to go rail. I mean, shoot, we have Amtrak already. It is expensive, unreliable, and takes forever. Even if it went faster, it wouldn't be worth it. I think for most places in the US, as long as airline tickets stay relatively cheap, it will not be worth the billions, upon billions of dollars to take it. Nice in theory, but if you end up doing massive government subsidies for little useage, serious waste of taxpayer monies.

poetgrl · Senior Member

Yes, Busdriver:

speaking of boys and cars, my youngest seems to have become interested in a boy who knows a lot about cars. Of course, she is sixteen.

This is the first "crush," I think.

She says both of his names when she talks about him, and Saturday morning he picked her up at 715 am to give her a ride to her basketball practice. Later in the day, she went to see his younger brother play.....and they sat with his mother.

Who else thinks I should be alarmed?

-- Edited by poetgrl on Monday 22nd of November 2010 11:25:22 PM

Abyss · Senior Member

BigG wrote:

http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci_16685208?nclick_check=1

Let's not do anything to reduce dependancy on foreign oil unless it protects Big Oil profits.

"Drill baby drill" but no high speed rail?

The patient is bleeding to death and the Republicans want to trim a hangnail.

-- Edited by BigG on Monday 22nd of November 2010 06:50:45 PM

-- Edited by BigG on Monday 22nd of November 2010 06:52:11 PM

I seem to recall in the presidential campaign that McCain wanted to build 40+ nuclear plants. Is he not a Republican?

poetgrl · Senior Member

I think we were hoping you would become the car expert.

It would be so much easier that way.

busdriver11 · Guru

On the note of being handy, I just know that if I was a guy I could have opened up this bottle of Samuel Adams without an opener in two seconds flat. I do admire guys for that. Instead, I'm going around my hotel room, slamming it down on different things, it doesn't open, nobody at the front desk, and I have to open it with tweezers. I am sure a guy would know 5 different ways to open it easier than that! And no, it's not a twist off. I'll bet romani knows how to do that.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

So I guess I know who to call to help me with plumbing and electrical, romani and poetgrl.

We really are going to need someone around here who can help us with our cars.

Best purchase I make all year: AAA membership for my entire family.

poetgrl · Senior Member

SL-- No, I wouldn't really recommend it. I read it in college .... A friend gave it to me. You probably know most of what's in there, already, anyway.

About the only thing I still carry around in my head from the book is that the point of fixing things, mechanically, is not to get frustrated.

I don't work on cars.

Too much grease.

romanigypsyeyes · Guru

Ew, SL- cars. I can do pretty much anything in a house. I can wire a house, I can install the plumbing, I can paint, I can do repairs, but don't let me anywhere near a car. Hell, I couldn't even put on a donut last week when I got my first flat tire.

I also can't cook or clean. I am so glad that my fiance is the feminine one of the relationship. If not, we'd starve.

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

No, poetgrl. Haven't read it. I will, if you recommend it.

poetgrl · Senior Member

You can do more than you think you can, really.

It's all about patience.

Did you ever read, "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" ?

SamuraiLandshark · Guru

I wish I was more handy around the car. I do a passable job of some things in the house, but have so much to learn. If I did, I would have endless projects to keep me busy to fix up this place!

poetgrl · Senior Member

Do both.

I think the world belongs to those with the most interests, personally. I also have a feeling that the Renaisance woman will have a better life.

I have.

romanigypsyeyes · Guru

I'm already a journey(wo)man. It'll probably make me more money (being a master plumber rather than getting my master's degree), but it's just not where my heart's at. Meh.

poetgrl · Senior Member

romanigypsyeyes wrote:

Or I'll just stay in Michigan and be a plumber :D.

There are worse fates.

I started out by rehabbing the first house I bought for very cheap and selling it and now I own a ton of property, and all of these advanced degrees are relatively useless. I'd much rather be able to do the electric. confuse

romanigypsyeyes · Guru

Hopefully neither. I want to stay in Michigan. I love it here.

Neither I nor my fiance want to live in a big city... but since I want to work in a fairly limited field, I might not have a choice :/.

Or I'll just stay in Michigan and be a plumber :D.

poetgrl · Senior Member

Nah....it would need to go to another metropolitan area. Maybe if they decided to do high-speed Chicago to Boston? That might work.

It's more challenging for us, Romani, in the middle of the country, more distance, less cities.

Will you move to Chicago when you finish school, or head east or west?

romanigypsyeyes · Guru

So have it stop in Ann Arbor and Lansing.

poetgrl · Senior Member

There are lots of ways to leave detroit.

But, unless it is a stop on the way to somewhere else, which is viable, it's just too, too expensive. Detroit, as you know, is losing population, not gaining. To put hundreds of millions into it, it would need to be viable, long-term.

YMMV

romanigypsyeyes · Guru

I'm also in Chicago and see no reason to add a rail to detroit, which is a dying city.

The rail goes both ways. I know a lot of people who live near Detroit and work in Chicago. Just because we're dying, doesn't mean we don't want/need to go anywhere.

poetgrl · Senior Member

I"m a fan, actually, of high speed rail.

I'm also in Chicago and see no reason to add a rail to detroit, which is a dying city. Maybe St. Louis, and then Kansas City and then out to Denver. That would be fantastic.

I think, also, down to the growing cities in the southeast.

High speed rail, though, would probably work best on the coasts, where there is city after city. You could go from Seattle down to San Diego and hit every city on the way. You could go from Boston all the way to Miami and hit every city on the way.

JMO

Cardinal Fang · Senior Member

There are a LOT of places where high speed rail could work. You want two cities 50-400 miles apart. Boston/New York/Washington, Seattle/Portland, Chicago/Detroit, Chicago/St. Louis, San Francisco/Los Angeles... tons of cities. High speed rail here would be just so great.

soccerguy315 · Guru

There are a few place high speed rail could work well in the US. However, many of the proposals seem to not be in those places.

Cardinal Fang · Senior Member

If it really was 400 MILLION dollars, it would have been an incredible bargain. Probably it would have been more.

How I wish we had high-speed rail between San Francisco and Los Angeles, or San Jose and Chicago. Even medium-speed rail would be better than what we have now. Trains are so much more comfortable than planes in every way. Way more energy-efficient, too.

BigG · Guru

Japan and China have high speed rail for the same reason we have high tech fighter planes, government subsidies for development.

They also have leadership which is technologically literate. We have leadership which is adept at getting elected.

We are fortunate that defense contracts are a valuable source of pork for Congressmen's home districts or we would be defenseless.
-- Edited by BigG on Monday 22nd of November 2010 08:31:53 PM

-- Edited by BigG on Monday 22nd of November 2010 08:32:20 PM

-- Edited by BigG on Monday 22nd of November 2010 08:34:18 PM

pmrlcomm · Senior Member

Amen!

Razorsharp · Guru

There is nothing "high speed" about the rail proposed. Japan and China have high speed rail. We have slow rail and spending billions more will only make it a little faster. It's a giant waste of money borrowed from future generations. Stupid is as stupid does.

pmrlcomm · Senior Member

The "high speed rail" they were discussing here in Ohio was gonna go 40 miles an hour and cost $400 million. Thank god the incoming governor is going to kill it.

BigG · Guru

http://www.mercurynews.com/top-stories/ci_16685208?nclick_check=1

Let's not do anything to reduce dependancy on foreign oil unless it protects Big Oil profits.

"Drill baby drill" but no high speed rail?

The patient is bleeding to death and the Republicans want to trim a hangnail.

-- Edited by BigG on Monday 22nd of November 2010 06:50:45 PM

-- Edited by BigG on Monday 22nd of November 2010 06:52:11 PM